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not sufficient to utilise local funds for this purpose; it is, after all~ illogical as well as inequitable to mulct a poor village community for disease which really originated a hundred miles away in a rich grazing district; it is ridiculous, as we have said, to expect a. butcher to insure himself except at an enormous premium. But the Government must be resolute, and it must be methodical. It must allocate a compensation fund , and it must see that the drains on this fund b ecome yearly smaller and smaller. And how is such a desirable end to be attained? By appointin g a body of veterinary inspectors, trained in a severe school on a uniform plan, so that there may be no leakage through incompetence or irresolution. When disease is found to exist the inspector must have power toorder slau ghter of all suspected animals, and compensation mu st be granted to the owner. The amount of this compensation will have to be determined by expert accountants working in conjunction with the inspectors. No man must be indemnified who has by want of care, or even by want of skill, brou ght about his own disaster, but everything must be done to protect the innocent sufferer_ "'Ie feel quite sure that the fall in the price of butcher meat will speedily indemnify the taxpayer for hi s outlay. We welcome this. Compensation Bill as a step in the right direction.

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sent to the Registration Committee, and if necessary be sent on to the Council. Mr. MULVEY, as a matter of policy, thought it was always well to read such letters, an opinion which was concurred in by Mr. Banham. It having been agreed that the letter should be read, the Secretary -commenced reading it, but after hearing the opening sentences, on the motion of Mr. Mul vey, it was agreed that the letter should be referred to the Registration Committee. It was decided that the following letter from Mr. Thatcher in regard to the veterinary degrees, Edinburgh University, should be received and placed on the minutes :" I have received a draft ordinance from the Principal of Edinburgh University. One of the qualifications for candidates seems to sufficiently protect our members, viz."Clause 5 (b). H e must be a member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, or hold a veterinary diploma recognised by the said College and gra nted in a British possession or foreign country entitling him to be registered in the Register of Veterinary Surgeons.' The curriculum is practically the same as that required by the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons for their own students. No special provision is made for gentlemen who have already obtained their diplomas from the Royal College." The SECRETARY read the following letters from Messrs. Matthew and ,C o., Birmingham:" 3rd March 1904. "Dear Sir-We act for Mr. John Blakeway, of this city, a F ellow of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, and write to you with refere ce t o a point which has arisen in connection with his practice. " Mr. Blakeway attends the horses belonging to a firm in this city, and for the purposes of their balance-sheet they asked him to report on the condition and value of the horses under his charge. He did so, and in the account which he rendered to them for his services he included a charge for making the valuation. "The amount at which he reported the value of the horses was £243, and he charged 5 per cent. on the amount for making his valuation, nam~ly, £ I 2 : 3s. "The firm, however, take exception to the amount, and have only allowed him £2 : 2S., and state through their solicitor that if he takes pro-ceedings for the balance they will require him to produce his valuer's licence. "The question arises as to whether it is necessary for a veterinary ·surgeon to hold a valuer's licence, in order to enable him to report to his clients the estimated value of their horses; and we write to ask if you have had a similar case, and also whether your Charter gives to a member this right, without the necessity of taking out a valuer's licence. The Act which requires a valuer or appraiser to have a licence is 46 George 111., cap. 43, sec. 5, which provides that no person shall exercise the calling of can appraiser or act as such within the meaning of the Act without taking out a licence. " Now, as we know that almost every day veterinary surgeons are asked the value of horses by their clients, it would appear to us to fall within tbe scope of their practice to make valuations, and it would entail considerable

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hardship to the profession if the members were prevented from giving their opinion upon the ·value of horses unless they had a valuer's licence. "It appears, however, to be a somewhat important point, and we should be much obliged if you would let us have your views thereon.Yours faithfully, MATTHEWS & Co." " 14th March 19°4. " Dear Sir-With reference to your letter of the 8th inst. the question appears to us to be of considerable importance, and our client, Mr. Blakeway,- would be glad if you would bring the matter before your Council. We would call your attention to the fact that members of your College are called upon daily to make valuations under the Diseases of Animals Act. It would therefore appear that the valuation of animals is. recognised by Government as part of the work of a veterinary surgeon. Moreover, the municipal authorities frequently ask for valuations from their veterinary surgeons as part of their professional duties. " If a licence is necessary in Mr. Blakeway's case, it must also be requisite in connection with all other cases :where a member of your College is asked to report on the value of an animal. " If your Council consider it a question which should be decided, we· trust they will take the matter up, and we shall be pleased to hand over to your solicitor the papers relating to the present case.-Yours faithfully, "MATTHEWS & Co."

The Solicitor having been asked to express his opinionMr. THATCHER said he thought the veterinary surgeon went into the matter not qua veterinary surgeon but qua valuer. That being so he must put up with the ordinary incidence of that office, and he thought he ought either to take out a licence or forego his fees. On the motion of Professor M'FADYEAN, seconded by Mr. FRASER, the· letter was referred to Mr. Thatcher to reply to. The SECRETARY read a letter from the War Office acknowledging the receipt of the resolution passed at the Council thanking His Majesty for the promulgation of the revised Warrant with regard to the A.D.V., which had been duly sent to the King. The SECRETARY read a letter from the Under-Secretary of State. acknowledging the Council's letter, which asked that no person be appointed as Government veterinary surgeon in Mauritius unless he held a diploma of the College. He was requested to inform the College that in view of the local circumstances and objections which might be entertained in the colony to the passing of such a law, Mr. Lyttleton regretted he could not see his way to meeting the suggestion. The SECRETARY read a letter from the Criminal I nvestigation Department with regard to the larceny of lead from the roof of a portion df the College, and stating that four men who endeavoured to get on the leads of the College were arrested, charged with being suspected persons, and eventually remanded. The SECRETARY reported that two of the men received three months. and one a month's imprisonment. On the motion of Mr. LOCKE the letter was referred to the General Purposes Committee. The SECRETARY read a letter from the Royal Institute of Public Health.

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inviting the College to appoint delegates to attend and take part in the proceedings of the Congress to be held in Folkestone from the 21st to the 26th of July next. A similar letter was received from the Mayor of Folkes tone. On the motion of Mr. SIMPSON, seconded by Mr. LOCKE, it was decided that the President for the time being, or his nominee, be asked to undertake the duties of delegate, that the usual sUbscription be paid, and that letters be sent to the Royal Institute of Public Health and the Mayor of Folkestone to this effect. Professor M'CALL inquired whether a similar letter had been received from Glasgow. The PRESIDENT replie.d that the Secretary said he had not received an invitation. Professor M'CALL said he was assured the letter was sent. Professor M'FADYEAN moved that if an invitation were received from Glasgow the same reply should be sent as to th e Folkestone invitation. Mr. SIMPSON seconded the motion, which was carried. The SECRETARY read the following letter from the Royal Institute of Public Health :"25th March 1904. " Sir-I am directed by the Council to inform you that they have for some years been anxious to promote a closer connection between membe1s of the veterinary profession and members of the medical profession engaged in public health work, and the Council would venture to suggest, for the consideration of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, whether it would be practicable for your College to give a Diploma in Veterinary Hygiene analogous to the Diploma in Public Health which exists in the medical profession. "Such a diploma would, of course, be only given to veterinary surgeons already on the register, as a result of a special examination and subsequent to special training. "The Council feel that the institution of such a diploma would necessarily stimulate greater attention on the part of veterinary surgeons to this subject, which is of growing public importance. "The Council note that the University of Liverpool has instituted such a diploma, and they feel that London should not be behind in offering a like advantage. " I am directed to add that the Council will gladly co-operate in any way your College might think desirable.-I am, Sir, your obedient servant, " SAMUEL NYE, Assistant S ecretary." Professor M'FADYEAN stated that the letter mentioned, as a reason for something being done by the Council in the way of encouraging the institution of a degree in Public Health, that something of a similar kind had been established by the University of Liverpool. The University of Liverpool appeared to have given a very bad lead in connection with the matter, and it was likely that in the near future they would be treated to the unedifying spectacle of seeing two or three of the recently constituted universities competing with each other as to which would give a veterinary degree on the lowest possible terms. The Liverpool University proposed that a degree should be conferred after six months' attendance at a few classes, some of them of a very scrappy nature. If degrees setting forth special qualifications in matters relating to veterinary sanitation were

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necessary, the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons was the body to give them. He was afraid it might be necessary to apply for a supplemental Charter. If so, it must be faced. If he was in order, he moved that a committee be appointed forthwith to consider the advisability of the Council instituting a veterinary degree in public sanitation. Professor PENBERTHY seconded the motion. Mr. SIMPSON suggested that the matter should be referred to the Examination Committee, which Professor M'Fadyean accepted, together with a suggestion by Mr. MULVEY that its report should be brought up at the next quarterly meeting. Colonel DUCK thought the matter was so pressing that action ought to be taken as soon as possible. He thought the Council ought to have taken the step a year or a year and a half ago. The PRESIDENT inquired whether Colonel Duck suggested calling a special meeting of the Examination Committee. Colonel DUCK replied in the affirmative. Professor M'FADYEAN suggested that the motion should be altered, stating that the question be remitted to the Examination Committee, with the request that they consider the matter as soon as possible, and report. This was agreed to. The SECRETARY read a letter from the London General Omnibus Companyasking if the President, or a Member of the Council, would attend a deputation which it was hoped would wait upon the President of the Board of Agriculture for the purpose of stamping out glanders in the United Kingdom. On the motion of Mr. MULVEY, seconded by Professor M'CALL, the President, or his nominee, was deputed to act on the deputation. '-# The PRESIDENT said it was suggested to him that an inquiry should be made into the degree of Veterinary Medicine to be given by the University of London, in the same way that an inquiry was made in regard to the University of Edinburgh. Professor M'FADYEAN stated that the University of London had decided that it would not grant a degree in Veterinary Medicine or in Veterinary Surgery, nor any degree whatever of the name of "Veterinary." The Senate of the London University had agreed to institute a special degree in Science, B.Sc., comprising subjects that would probably prove convenient to veterinary students. The subjects of examination did not include any of the clinical ones. The SOLICITOR stated that he was satisfied with Professor M'Fadyean's explanation. TO RECEIVE A LETTER FROM THE RIGHT HONOURABLE THE SECRETARY OF STATE, HOME OFFICE, TO OBTAIN THE COUNCIL'S OBSERVTIONS re THE APPLICATION OF PROFESSOR W. OWEN WILLIAMS FOR THE REMOVAL OF THE NEW VETERINARY COLLEGE FROM EDINBURGH TO LIVERPOOL. The SECRETARY read the following letters :"Ne"dJ Veterinary College, "Edinburgh, 9th February 1904. "To the Under. Secretary of State.

"SIR-In continuance of my letter to you with respect to the moving of my College from Edinburgh to Liverpool, I would like to add that there

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./

;are three Colleges in Scotland and not one in the Midlands or North of England; and further, that the majority of my students come from these .districts, and that the change of location would be a great saving to them in travelling and other expenses. I would also like to add that a very large proportion of the veterinary surgeons in the North of England, Lan.cashire, and Yorkshire especially, graduated from this College. If I might, with all respect, alter my humble request, it would be to put it in the form of a question, and that would be-Would you have any objection to me removing my location from here to Liverpool ?-I remain, Sir, your <>bedient servant, W. OWEN WILLIAMS." " Whitehall, loth .February 19°4. ," To the President, R.C.V.S.

"SIR-I am directed by the Secretary of State to acquaint you that he has received an application from Mr. W. Owen Williams for permission to Temove the New Veterinary College, Edinburgh, as a teaching establishment from Edinburgh to Liverpool. Mr. Williams points, as a reason for the proposed removal, to the greater facilities which exist at Liverpool for the 'Prosecution of veterinary research. The Secretary of State has had before him the correspondence which passed between his Department and your -College in 1873, resulting in the grant of a Royal Warrant to the New Veterinary College, and in its affiliation to the Royal College of Veterinary :Surgeons; and he d esires me to request you to favour him with your ()bservations on the present application.-I am, Sir, your obedient servant, " H ENRY CUNYNGHAME." " Whitehall, ~ 'To

12 th

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the President, R.C. V.S.

"SIR-I am directed by the Secretary of State to forward to you, in .continuation of the Home Office letter of the loth instant, the enclosed copy of a further communication which he has received from Mr. Owen Williams on the subject of the removal of the N ew Veterinary College from Edinburgh to Liverpool.-I am, Sir, your obedient servant, "HENRY CUNYNGHAME." " Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, " 10 Red Lion Square, W. C., " 16th February 1904. "To the Secretary of State, '" Home Office, Whitehall, London, S. W.

"SIR-I h ave the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your communication of the loth instant, which places me in a very delicate and -difficult position, as I thus become both petitioner and observer upon the petition-l being the Principal of the New Veterinary College, Edinburgh, as well as having the honour of presiding over the Council of this College. lf you will 'permit me, I will wait upon you at Whitehall, and perhaps a 'Personal statement from me will assist matters. I, however, respectfully beg your assistance and guidance in this matter.-I am, Sir, your obedient -servant, W. OWEN WILLIAMS." I

"

Whitehall, 23rd F ebruary 1904.

'''To W. Owen Williams, Esq.

"SIR-Referring to your letter of the 16th instant as to the proposed

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removal of the New Veterinary College from Edinburgh to Liverpool, I am directed by the Secretary of State to say that he does not see that the situation presents any difficulty if you will be good enough to lay the matter before the Councilor General Purposes Committee of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons and obtain their observations.-I am, Sir. your obedient servant, W. P. BYRNE."

"R.C. v.s., 26th February 1904. "To the Right H onourable the Under-Secretary of State, " H ome Office, Whitehall, London.

"SIR-I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 23rd instant, for which I beg to thank you. I will make it my duty to lay the matter before the next meeting of the Council of this College (which is to be held on the 8th April), and will communicate its observations to you in course.- I have the honour to be, Sir, your obedient servant, W. OWEN WILLIAMS, President." Mr. MULVEY.-Mr. President and Gentlemen-This subject is a very serious one, and deserves very grave consideration on the part of this Council. The question seems to me to be this-that if we, as a Council. agree to affiliation of one more school in England in a provincial town. that we shall soon be inundated by applications from other towns. In fact, I believe that it is already proposed to ask for the same affiliation as is now possessed by the Colleges in Scotland and in England from three or four provincial towns. The PRESIDENT.-May I point out that you are hardly speaking to the point; this is not an application for affiliation. Mr. MULVEY.-It is an application for the removal of a College that is affiliated in Scotland to a fresh affiliation in England. If I am right, I think the affiliation is to the school or College in Edinburgh and not to the owner of that College, but to the College itself as situated in Edinburgh. I think I am right. Well, sir, we, as a profession, and this Council in particular, have for years past been complaining of the dearth of students, and we were in hopes that the time was coming when some of the Colleges would make up their minds to arrange amongst themselves that there should be only, say, one College in Scotland, one in Ireland, and one in England. To my mind that would very much enhance the value of the teaching to the students. There have been so few attendances at many of the Colleges that they can scarcely have been paying concerns. It would be very much better if instead of removing to England we had one or two Colleges less. I shall leave the matter now, and simply move the following resolution :"In the interests of veterinary education the Council of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons would welcome any arrangement which would reduce the present unnecessary number of the affiliated Colleges in Scotland, but for the same reason they feel compelled to express disapproval of the proposal to establish a second Veterinary College in England, and to have it affiliated to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons." Mr. WRAGG.- I beg to second that. The PRESIDENT.-I might suggest to Mr. Mulvey that there question of affiliation.

IS

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. Mr. MULVEY.-To my mind, sir, there is, because, as I have stated very lxiefly just now, the affiliation was for a school situated in Edinburgh, and the removal must therefore necessitate a fresh affiliation, otherwise why should the application be referred to this College. Mr. SIMPSON.-I do not think that a hasty vote should be taken on this question. In order that this matter may be made more clear, at any rate to myself, I think the whole of the facts should be laid before us to enable those of us who have not heard as much perhaps as others have to know how we should vote in the matter. I shall remain passive until I receive some sort of information which will guide me as to the way I shall vote. . Mr. LAwsoN.-I quite agree with what Mr. Simpson said just now. It seems to me a most essential point that we should know whether the charter was granted to Professor Williams or to his father, or whether it was granted to the town of Edinburgh. I think the Council ought to be in possession of that fact before we vote either one way or the other. The PRESIDENT.-Perhaps it would save the time of the Council if I vacated the chair and made an explanation or reply to any questions. Mr. ABsoN.-I was going to suggest that. Professor M'FADYEAN.-I think, sir, we are all perfectly willing to hear an explanation from you from the chair.-(Hear, hear.) The PRESIDENT.- Then, gentlemen, I might point out that I have received an invitation from the University of Liverpool, from the Lord Mayor of Liverpool, from the President of the School of Comparative Pathology, from the Chamber of Commerce, and from others in Liverpool. to remove my College as a teaching institution from Edinburgh to Liverpool. I retain the New Veterinary College as it has been ever since its foundation in 1873. I have received a promise, in fact a free statement,. from the University authorities that in no way do they desire to interfere with veterinary education, nor have they any desire to grant any diploma or degree, as was suggested by Edinburgh University some time ago-that is, they have no intention of trying to usurp the power of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeo.os and grant a second licence in opposition to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons. They tell me that they highly appreciate our position by having a single portal, and they express the wish that the day is not far distant when the medical profession will also have one portal. The University authorities have offered me the use of their lecture rooms and of their laboratories. The shipowners and others have subscribed sums of money and collected other sums of money, and we are now building premises which will be the Veterinary College of Liverpool; we are about to commence to build these premises. The University professors have all expressed their willingness to assist to the best of their ability in the teaching of my students. Yon are all aware that in Scotland and in London to an extent it has been the habit of the Veterinary Colleges to call in outside aid to assist in the teaching. There is no Veterinary College that I know of, except, perhaps Dublin (Professor Mettam will correct me if 'I am wrong)-there is no Veterinary College that I know of which has a complete staff, each member of which devotes the whole of his time to the teaching of veterinary students. Professor M'FADYEAN.-I beg your pardon; I hope you will allow me to put you right in that. The London Veterinary College does not include on its staff anybody who is engaged in teaching elsewhere.

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The PREsIDENT.-Many thanks, but I believe until recently my statement was right; it is quite recently that the alteration has been made, has it not? Professor M'FADYEAN.-I do not know about quite recently, but it is not true at the present moment at any rate. The PRESIDENT.-I regret that I made the statement, but until within .a very few months ago my statement was absolutely correct as regards all the Colleges with the exception of Dublin, and I do not know about that. Professor M'FADYEAN.-I confess that I am at a loss to know :what you have in your mind when you say" recently." Who is the teacher that 1S teaching in another institution? The PREsIDENT.-I thought Professor Power did. Professor M'FADYEAN.-He did not. Excuse me. The PREsIDENT.- I beg your pardon, then. At most of the Colleges :it has been the custom for many years to call in outside aid to assist in the teaching of the veterinary students, and that is what will occur at Liverpool. I shall not have a staff who devote the whole of their time to the teaching of veterinary students, but I shall have a staff who will give the necessary .amount of time to the teaching of veterinary students, and the rest of their time, whether it is much or little, will be devoted to other work. I may say 'that the advantages I shall have in Liverpool, as compared with the advantages I have in Edinburgh, are principally the following :-My students will have the opportunity of seeing the enormous import of live cattle, not only of cattle, but of horses and of sheep. They will see these animals when they are alive, and they will see these animals in the abattoirs. They will also have the practice of several veterinary surgeons in Liverpool at their disposal, and these veterinary surgeons will have their indoor practices .at the College Hospital. It is also understood that my students will have the opportunity of seeing large amounts of transport, and it is probable they will have an opportunity of going to foreign countries and returning with .ships laden either with horses or with cattle. I shall be very pleased, gentlemen, if there is any further information I can convey to the members of the Council here as regards the advantages that have been offered to me at Liverpool. I would repeat the statement t hat the majority of my students come from the North of England, and that it is really my going to them to save them all coming into a strange country to me. I would point out that it is not a question of the affiliation
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The PRESIDENT.-Yes, it is distinctly understood and promised SO r The only degree or diploma that will be granted is the post-graduate diploma in Public H ealth, which is advertised. Professor M'FADYEAN.-They dare not grant a degree. Mr. SIMPSON.-I want to ascertain whether there will any attempt. The PRESIDENT.-They do not suggest attempting, as other universities have done. Mr. SIMPSON.-As I attach a great deal of importance to the facilitiesthat are given to students elsewhere with regard to clinical observation and practice, I should like to ask : Are the premises of this University of sufficient size to admit of the proper teaching of clinical work. The PRESIDENT.- Yes, they will be. Professor M'CALL.-Might I be allowed to explain that the step which Professor Williams intends to take was taken by another gentleman yearsago. You will all remember that Professor Gamgee instituted the New Veterinary College, Edinburgh, which was affiliated under the Charter of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons. After he had been in Edin-burgh for some years he determined to remove the College to London, and he transferred the College to London. The Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons made no objection to that transference, neither did the Home Secretary, nor anyone else. We are also aware that it did not exist for very long, but at the same time it was a transfer in the identical way that. Professor Williams desires at the present moment; and I for one do not see that we have any right to interfere in the mattet. What we have a right to do is to see that Professor Williams obtains no advantage overother and similar institutions, that his students are submitted to examina-tion by the same examiners as examine at the other institutions, and, in fact, in every sense of the word, that the institution will be conducted as. it has been conducted,- I think you will all admit, with very great success. Professor M'FADYEAN.- I venture to -say that no more serious threat could have been made to the profession in England than that the New College in Liverpool will be conducted as the New College in Edinburgh. has been conducted, and I say that without any offence. I shall explain exactly why I think it would be an absolute calamity to the veterinary profession in England if any veterinary school with the constitution of theNew Veterinary College should be allowed to plant itself in Liverpool. I would not like to say, sir, that you have any intention to bamboozle the Council by a mere juggling of words, but although you are in the chair, I think you will allow us-which reason seems to demand-to insist that it is not a proposal to remove a College; it is proposal to extinguish a College in Edinburgh and start a new one in England. It is all very well for Professor M'Call to ask us to go back to that precedent of thirty years ago, as if we were a lot of school children who would accept a word without inquiring into its meaning. H e has told us that the New Veterinary College of Edinburgh belonging to Professor Gamgee was removed to London. What was removed to L ondon? Professor Gamgee was removed to London. Might I ask, when Professor Williams says that the NewVeterinary C ollege is to be removed to Liverpool, exactly what he means? He certainly does not mean that the premises are to be removed! (Oh r oh!) He certainly does not mean that the whole staff are to be removed. I repeat, sir, that the proposal that is really before us is to establish a new Veterinary College in Liverpool, and have it affiliated to the Royal College

The Veterz'nary Journal. of Veterinary Surgeons, and I repeat that that would be a calamity to the profession in England for this reason. We have not been used in England for a good many years to the methods that prevail with regard to Veterinary Colleges in Scotland. What constitutes a Veterinary College in Scotland? In two of the instances, at any rate, the Principals of them may legitimately use the short possessive" my" college. Professor Williams used it in that correspondence-" my college." Now I maintain that it is not right at this beginning of the twentieth century that we should affiliate any more private colleges, and it is of the highest possible importance that we should not affiliate a private college in England. If you affiliate a private individual you lose all control over him; so far as I know, you lose all control over the institution. I ask-I hear murmurs of dissent from Professor M'Call-who possesses the Glasgow Veterinary College? Professor M'CALL.-I say that my students are examined on the same lines as yours. Professor M'F ADYEAN.- That is not the point. Professor M'CALL.-That is the whole point. Professor M'FADYEAN.-I will make the distinction clearer. The Royal Veterinary College of London and the Royal Veterinary College of Ireland are public bodies, with powers that are absolutely defined in Charters of their own, and they are managed by a Board of Governors who are absolutely debarred from applying a single penny of the money that they take for the tuition of students for thei r own pecuniary benefit. Now is that true of private colleges ? Of course it is not. In short, if a private individual gets the privileges which go along with affiliation, he may treat it as a gold-mining concession; he has simply got to issue advertisements, take in students at whatever fees he chooses to impose, make arrangements with a staff who will accept the very lowest possible remuneration, and he may make it his object to make his own private fortune. I defy anybody to say that that is not possible to the person who possesses a private college. Professor M'CALL.-Excuse me; it is perfectly impossible, and you know it. Professor M'FADYEAN.-Excuse me; I do not know it. Professor M'CALL.-You do. Professor M'FADYEAN.-I do not. Professor M'CALL.-You know that a man has never made a shilling by it. Professor M'F ADYEAN.-That is not the point. Professor M'CALL.-It is the point. Professor M'FADYEAN.- You were not able to make it. I should have said it would have been a shame to Professor M'Cali if he had come here and told us that he had made anything out of veterinary tuition, keeping such a staff and paying such a staff as he does. My point is-and I am coming to that-that ngthing can be made out of veterinary teaching. (" Camden Town.") A good deal has been made at Camden Town. £15,000 has been spent in building new premises in Camden Town within the last fifteen years. Mr. LocKE.-1t was not made out of the fees. Professor M'FADYEAN.-Pardon me ; it was. Mr. LocKE.-1t was the annual subscriptions. Professor M'FADYEAN.-Here is the difference between the Royal

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Veterinary College and a private institution. The Royal Veterinary College has got nine qualified veterinary surgeons on its staff, and there is not one of them that dares look at a horse outside the College ; they are absolutely debarred from private practice or from seeing a horse outside the College except in consultation. Professor M'CALL.- I know to the contrary j I know that your professors come down to Scotland. Professor M'FADYEAN.-I beg your pardon; I am telling you what are the regulations of the College. The PREsIDENT.-But what do they do? Professor M'FADYEAN.-I say they are debarred from doing so. Professor M'CALL.-But they do it. Professor M'FADYEAN.-We are anxious to elicit the truth. Does Professor M'Call contend there is no difference in that respect between the teachers in Glasgow, say, and in the New Veterinary College, Edinburgh. It is known to every person round the board that there is a great difference. Professor M'CALL.-What is the difference? Professor M'FADYEAN.-Are yuu not aware that the nine members of the veterinary profession attached to the Royal Veterinary College are not allowed to engage in practice ? Professor M'CALL.- I know as a fact that within the last twelve months one of your own staff who is sitting round this table was in So.)tland examining horses. Professor M 'F ADYEAN.-Is not that rather childish? Mr. LAwsoN.-He says that Professor Penberthy has been down to Scotland examining horses. Professor M'FADYEAN.-If the members of Council really think that because it is within Professor M'Call's knowledge that Professor Penberthy examined a horse in Scotland that my contention that there is a great difference between the constitution of the two Colleges has been broken down, then I will leave the point j but I am quite sure it is a point that does not need to be elaborated. It is known to everybody here that a number of points thought to be of great importance were eiicited by Mr. Simpson's cross-examination. Mr. SIMPSoN.-Please do not call it cross-examination j I simply wanted to be clear in my own mind, and asked the questions. Professor M'FADYEAN.-Examination. I will withdraw the word "cross." You suggest, sir, that the Liverpool University have been good e nough to say that it would not attempt to institute a veterinary degree off its own bat. Thank goodness we have something more to rely upon than that j we have got the Veterinary Surgeons Act, and in that respect we 'are quit~ safe. Professor M'CALL.-We all know that. Professor M'FADYEAN.-It is worth while now-a-days to repeat things that are well known. But there is one point that has not been brought out by the examination, and I will endeavour to bring it out. Where is the clinical practice to come from in Liverpool that is to serve for the proper education of these veterinary students? The PRESIDENT.-It is not to come from cheap practice. (Hear, hear). Professor M'FADYEAN.-That is hardly an answer to my question, Mr. President.

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The PRESIDENT.-I stated distinctly, Professor M'Fadyean, that the practices of several veterinary surgeons in Liverp,ool will be at their disposal. \ Professor M'FADYEAN.-Are those gentlemen to be allowed to calli themselves lecturers, or are they to be connected with the College in any way? The PRESIDENT.-They are going to be clinical teachers in the College. Professor M'FADYEAN.-Here is the vicious system. Contrary to the wishes of the practitioners in Liverpool-and I venture to assert that: they have not been consulted upon the question-it is proposed to plant down in their midst a Veterinary College with a staff which will compete' with the existing private veterinary surgeons. A few of them have been conciliated I understand. Naturally it will pay certain of these gentlemeTh to teach for next to nothing, because it will give them a great advantage over their brother practitioners in the same town. The PREsIDENT.-Is that your concern, or the concern of those in. Liverpool? Professor M'FADYEAN.-It is the concern of the profession as a whole. and I am one of its guardians quite as much as you are. I do not want to make a long speech. I am satisfied that it is our duty, as the custodians of the interests of the profession, to disapprove of the proposal tostart a second Veterinary College, even if we knew that would stop it. We know as a matter of fact it will not stop it I know that if a Veterinary College is started in Liverpool we shall very soon have a demand for the affiliation of a Veterinary College in Manchester. Mr. LOcKE.-We can stop that. Professor M'CALL.-Why not? Professor M'FADYEAN. -Why not? You are quite right, Professor M'Call, it is the only attitude that is permissible for you, and that is that it does not matter to this College whetht:;r there is one in every town with twenty thousand inhabitants. Professor M'CALL.-It matters a great deal, because we have the power of examining these students and seeing that they are properly educated, so that you have no monopoly in that way. Professor M'FADYEAN.-I beg your pardon, th ere is a monopoly, and it is quite right that there should not be free trade in teaching. Did ever man hear greater unwisdom than to suggest that this College has no concern with teaching and that it can safeguard everything by examining. Professor M'CALL. -Exactly j that is true. Professor M'FADYEAN.-It is just as if Professor M'Call thought his. duty in providing nourishment for his family was completed if he purchased a weighing machine and weighed them from time to time j it is exactly the same. There never were words of greater un wisdom uttered anywhere than to say it is a matter of indifference to this College how many schools there are. _ It is a matter of vital importance how many schools there are. because if they are very numerous they certainly cannot be efficient. I think, as Mr. Mulvey said, that this is a question of immense importance. The prospect of having five Veterinary Colleges in England is really something too serious to contemplate. (A voice, "Which are the five? ") There is one in London, there is one in Liverpool, there will certainly be one in Manchester. Mr. LocKE.-No, certainly not.

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Mr. PENBERTHY.-YOU do not know. Mr. LOCKE.-Yes, I do. Professor M'FADYEAN.-Since Mr. Locke has challenged me, at the fisk of proving a little tedious, I will read a letter from Professor Delepine. He says, "The intention of the Liverpool University to create a school of Veterinary Medicine has been fairly well known for the last few months"; and then he goes on to say some things that are not relative to the point, which I will not bring before the Council. " I was asked at the beginning of last winter by the Dean and the Principal of Victoria University whether I thought it desirable to establish a veterinary school in connection with
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Mr. LocKE.-With regard to Owen's College, the only place that is' offered to post-graduate candidates is the laboratory of Professor Delepine. Mr. DOLLAR.- I do not want to speak j I simply want to ask a question. Inasmuch as you, sir, have just suggested that it is quite sufficient that :t. man should pass the examination of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, why is it-it is a point which has long puzzled me-that the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons makes it incumbent on every student who presents himself for examination to bring with him :t certificate from his Principal stating that he has passed through a course of instruction lasting so many weeks, mainly a term. If it is a matter of indifference to this College, and the Examining Board is quite able to discern between man and man whether he has undergone a course of training or has undergone no course of training, why do they insist on these certificates being produced by every man before he is examined? The PRESIDENT. -You understand distinctly that every veterinary student must undergo a curriculum at a properly recognised Veterinary College. Mr. DOLLAR.-Yes j and I take it that the reason is that it is quite insufficient . to merely examine a man, and that this College recognises that one of the great safeguards, if not the greatest safeguard, which it has in passing a man into the profession is to know that he has been at the school? The PRESIDENT.-Yes. It is under all those conditions that the new College works. Schools cannot be put into such a position as to send candidates up for examination at the R oyal College of -Veterinary Surgeons unless the schools insist upon their students attending a full course and receiving the certificate from their Principal, as is done with the institution with which Professor M'Fadyean is connected and the other institutions. We are bound by the regulations of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons. Mr. DOLLAR.-Only it has been put before us that it is quite sufficient for a man to be examined, and that his previous training is a matter of no importance. The PRESIDENT.-Oh no j who put that forward? Mr. DOLLAR.- I thought you did. The PRESIDENT.-I think you misunderstood me. Mr. WARTNABy.-Might I ask whether you consider that you have exceptional advantages to offer to students in Liverpool that you had not in Edinburgh? The PRESIDENT.-Yes, I have very great advantages, which I have already mentioned. I Professor M'FADYEAN.-There is one other point-are you going to engage in private practice in Liverpool? The PRESIDENT.-I am not. Mr. VILLAR.-I noticed, sir, just now that you made use of the term " recognised veterinary school." Do I understand you to mean a school which is recognised by the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons? The PRESIDENT.- Yes. Mr. VILLAR.-Seeing that that is so, I think we ought to be very careful as to what schools we do recognise. We ought really to have very full information as to the facilities which will be offered for teaching veterinary science, more especially the teaching of clinical work. It is a.

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question, to my mind, whether Professor Williams has given us full information, full information which we ought to require, which we should insist upon knowing before this College recognises the establishment of any veterinary school. He has told us that he proposes to apply to the teaching staff of other institutions for the education of his students. No doubt pathological knowledge, physiology, and all that sort of thing may be perhaps got quite readily from a member of the medical profession, but I do insist upon this-that clinical veterinary surgery and medicine can only be taught by duly qualified veterinary surgeons_ There is a tendency nowadays for the medical profession, or for certain branches of the medical profession, to try to insinuate themselves into our work-not only to get a certain portion of it for themselves (as anyone who is acquainted with medical officers must acknowledge) but they also want to teach us ; they want to say what we shall learn and what we shall not. It seems to me, by agreeing to this transfer of a school to an institution which is teaching ordinary medical science, we shall be taking a step which will in time place veterinary surgery in a position subservient to the medical profession. Gentlemen, I should be delighted to see the day when the veterinary profession can go entirely on its own, and when it need not be beholden to the medical profession in any way whatever.(Hear, hear.) This is to my mind a retrograde step,-I do not mean to say in Professor Williams actual moving his college from one place to another, but moving it, as he does, to an institution which is connected with the medical profession. Professor Williams and the veterinary surgeons will n ot be able to dictate to the medical profession what they shall do, and we shall find it will be the whole aim of the members of the medical profession to dictate to the veterinary profession what they shall do. The PRESIDENT.-I would point out, Mr. Villar, that such subjects as physics, physiology, and biology are not taught by veterinary surgeons in veterinary schools; they are taught by specialists on the subject. Mr. VILLAR.-But members of our profession, if sufficient inducement were offered, would soon qualify themselves to teach such subjects as that. The PRESIDENT.-Yes. There is a resolution proposed by Mr. Mulvey, seconded by Mr. Wragg, before the Council. The resolution would require some little amendment by Mr. Mulvey, because we are discussing a letter received from the Home Secretary, in which the Home Secretary requests me as President to submit the correspondence to this Council for its observation. I take it that if Mr. Mulvey's proposition be carried it will be sent forward as the observation of this Council? Mr. MULvEy.-Yes. The PRESIDENT.-The resolution proposed by Mr. Mulvey would be included in th e letter to the Home Secretary. Is there any counter motion to that, or shall I put it? Mr. M'KINNA.-Before you put the motion to the Council, rather than come to such a hasty decision, I should propose that a committee be appointed to consider the question. This seems to me a very serious matter indeed. I came with a perfectly open mind to the Council, and I was hoping that what Professor Williams might bring forward would be something, not in his own name, not a private College, but some recognised University; because I feel that up to the present time our profession has suffered, and suffered considerably, because of private

The Veter£nary Journal. enterprise, for this reason-Two or three years ago I visited Germany and visited the schools there, and I could not feel proud of my own profession in England. And why? Because in that country every college was supported by Government, and as a consequence every place was equipped to its fullest extent, everything was specialised, with the result that, as in a great many other things, the German veterinary surgeons as practitioners are much more highly equipped than British veterinary surgeons. I think the student is the one who suffers. I did hope that soon we should have the Government recognising us, and that Government aid would be given to the institutions. Surely now, in the twentieth century, veterinary science, which rlays such an important part in connection with agriculture, ought to be recognised. That is the light in which I look upon the matter, and I do not think we ought to vote hastily. I throw it out as a suggestion, whether the subject ought not to be further considered before we record our vote and come to any definite decision. Mr. BYRNE.-I am in entire agreement with what has fallen from Mr. M'Kinna. I am in favour of the proposition to move this College from Edinburgh to Liverpool to a certain extent; I am strongly opposed to it to a certain other extent. Actuated. solely with a desire for the welfare of the profession, not allowing my personal feelings to sway me one way or the other, I am in a considerable and confusing condition of doubt at the present moment as to whether I should vote for the thing or vote against it, and I am therefore very strongly in accord with what has fallen from Mr. M'Kinna, that the matter should either be delegated to a subcommittee, or that it should be postponed till the next meeting of Council, until people have had time to give it due consideration and thought. (Hear, hear). Mr. M'KINNA.-I may say that I never heard anything from either side till I came to London to-day. Mr. VILLAl<..-Meanwhile we have the assurance of Professor Williams that the College is being built. Mr. MULVEY.- I suppose that the letter from the Home Office requires almost an immediate answer? The PRESIDENT.-I should think so. I may state that the Home Secretary wrote to me as President of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, being unaware of the fact that the President of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons was the Principal of the New Veferinary College, and after I had ' explained the matter to him, he suggested that it should be submitted to this Council for its observation. You will probably remember that when another Veterinary College was founded, when it obtained its charter and when it asked for affiliation, the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, or this Council, was perfectly indifferent as to whether it was a bogey or whether it actually existed; they accepted the affiliation without any committee being appointed, or anything. This is not a question of affiliation or the commencement of a new College. Professor METTAM.-I do not know whether that refers to the Royal Veterinary College of Ireland. The PRESIDENT.-I do not think any Committee was appointed to inquire whether it was in existence or anything. Professor METTAM.-It was granted by charter and the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons bound to accept the charter as law. The PRESIDENT. - Which it has done in the case of the Royal Veterinary College.

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Mr. M'KINNA.-Have the Council any power in the matter; is this simply a courtesy? The PREsIDENT.-It is the courtesy of the Home Secretary to the Council of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons in asking them to pass an observation. The College is an affiliated College to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons and has the power to teach. I think I had now better put the proposition of Mr. Mulvey, seconded by Mr. Wragg. Mr. LocKE.-Is not there an amendment? Mr. M'KINNA.-I shall move as an amendment " That the matter be postponed." Mr. BYRNE.-I beg to second that. Mr. LAwsoN.-That a reply be sent that it is under consideration. Professor M'FADYEAN.-I think the mover of the amendment olVes it to the Council to explain what he has in view with regard to the postponement. I s it to be postponed to our next meeting, or is he going to nominate a Committee forthwith? If he is, then I think he had better let us know the members of it. Mr. M'KINNA.-The whole Council. Professor M'F ADYEAN.- To meet when? I believe I am right in saying that the New Veterinary College has been advertised to be sold within a fortnight! The PRESIDENT.-The New Veterinary College has not been advertised to be sold, but the buildings which are occupied by the New Veterinary College are advertised. Professor M'FADYEA
The Veterinary Journal. Mr. SIMPSON.-It is a very common thing, when magistrates and others are appointed, for the Lord Chancellor to submit a courteous letter to a body representing a town or e. county. I take it it is in the power of the Home Secretary to give you authority to remove your College apart from the question of affiliation if he so chooses. The PRESIDENT.-Yes. Mr. DOLLAR.-I presume it would be equally probable that the Home Secretary would give respectful attention to any remarks which this Council may have thought proper to make, and that if this Council regarded this not as a mere removal but as a fresh application for affiliation, that the Home Secretary would probably take that into account in coming to a decision. Mr. Simpson has put a hypothetical point; and there is this hypothetical point that has occurred to me. Professor M' CALL.-I often hear an appeal made to the Solicitor; might I ask what the Solicitor has to say in the matter? Mr. THATCHER (Solicitor).- I am in this unfortunate position. I am not able to give an opinion on a document which is not before me. I do not know the terms of these letters of affiliation. I know that they are something distinct fro m a charter, but without having them before me I certainly would decline to give an opinion on so very important a point as this. Mr. M'KINNA.-That is the reason why I suggest delay. Mr. LocKE.-We are asked to do the same thing. Mr. THATC HER.-I agree. If I may go a little bit outside the legal question, I agree with Mr. M'Kinna and Mr. Byrne. Mr. M'KINNA.-I say that we should do nothing rash or hurried; I am looking at it from the standpoint of the profession as a whole. The PRESIDENT.-Then I will put Mr. M'Kinna's amendment, seconded by Mr. Byrne, that a letter be sent to the Home Secretary stating that the matter has been remitted for further consideration. Mr. LocKE. -Will you state that the matter has only been brought before the Council to-day, and that they· have not had an opportunity of thinking it over? Mr. VILLAR.-What was the date of the original letter? How long hs this correspondence been going on ? Mr. M'KINNA.-The Council has not met before. This is the first time the Council has met since the correspondence took place. Mr. DOLLAR.-It is the first time the Council has heard anything about it. Mr. VILLAR.-It is a pity to make greater delay. The PREsIDENT.-The first letter on the subject IS dated loth February. Mr. DOLLAR.-That is two months ago. Mr. VILLAR.-What strikes me as peculiar is that we should not have heard something of this before. I was simply flabbergasted when I saw it on the agenda paper. Mr. M'KINNA.-SO was I. Mr. M'KINNA'S amendment-CC That a letter be written to the Secretary of the H ome Department to say that this matter is receiving the most careful consideration from the Council, and a reply will be sent at the earliest possible moment "-was then put and carried, 13 voting for and 10 against.

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The amendment was then put as the substantive resolution and was -carried, 15 voting for and 7 against. The PRESIDENT.-A letter to that effect will be sent at once. Will you n ow suggest when this matter is to be brought up for special discussion? Mr. MULVEY.-And appoint the Committee. T!1e PRESIDENT.-Will you appoint a committee to meet at a special
The Veter£nary Journal. that if the Council as a body would present a robe, he (Mr. Dollar) would undertake to present the chain of office. Mr. Dollar having referred to the: antiquity of the veterinary profession, concluded by investing the President with a very handsome gold chain and badge of office. The badge contains the armorial bearings of the College in coloured enamels, surrounded by wreaths of oak and laurel. Below, it carries the Cup of Hygeia, and is surmounted with the Royal arms, indicating theRoyal Charters under which the College is instituted. The total weight of the chain and badge is about 13 ounces. The chain itself is composed of three varieties of links, two different forms of shields, and intermediate embossed and chased circular links. Three materials have been used in the manufacture-the links of the chain being composed of 18 carat gold,. the enamelled portions of the badge of 22 carat gold, and the knightly helm and Cup of Hygeia of platinum. Twenty-two carat gold is employed for the enamelled portions on account of the special colours of enamel refusing to adhere to gold of less fineness. The PRESIDENT, on behalf of the Council, tendered Mr. Dollar its most sincere thanks for his handsome and generous gift. There was no· doubt that if he was particularly profound in heraldry he would be able to tell the members what the designs on the magnificent chain and badge meant, but probably there would be an opportunity for the members to· write articles on the beautiful insignia of office. He trusted the insignia would be handed down to many much more worthy men than himself tOo keep them in mind of Mr. Dollar's generous gift. PRESENTATIONS TO THE LIBRARY. The SECRETARY announced the following presentations had been made to the Library since the last meeting :-The Veterinary J ournal for three months, from the Editors; The Journal of Comparative Pathology anti Therapeutics, from the Editors; The Veterinary Record, from the Editors; The Journal of State Medicine for three months; The RllOdesian Agri-culturalJournal, vol. I, NO.4; The Calendar of the Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain, 1904; The Calmdar of the College of Preceptors, 1904. On the motion of Mr. ABSON, seconded by Mr. WRAGG, a hearty vote of thanks was accorded to the various donors. FINANCE COMMITTEE. Mr. LAWSON read the report and moved its adoption. The report stated that at a meeting held on April 8th a vote of condolence was passed to Mr. Trigger for his unavoidable absence through illness. It wasrecommended that, a courteous letter be sent to Messrs. Bailliere & Co. to say that having taken the advice of the sub-Committee in regard to· expenses, their recommendation had been accepted concerning the pubishing and printing of the Register. Letters were read from a late examiner in regard to a further payment for travelling expenses, and it was recommended that he be paid the amoun t without remark. The vouchers and receipts for payment for the precedi ng quarter were examined and passed, and the quarterly statement of the Treasurer was submitted. The Committee recommended that the present liabilities be discharged, and that the Treasurer be empowered to draw cheques for examiners' fees and, examination expenses for May, and petty cash, not exceeding £20. Mr. M'KINNA seconded the motion, which was ado pterl.

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REGISTRATION COMMITTEE. Mr. SIMPSON read the report of the Registration Committee, held on April 6th. The Committee considered the complaint of Mr. John Clark James against Mr. Harry Potts. Both parties were present. The Solicitor read the complaint, which was for soliciting clients of Mr. James, kIlowing them to be such. Evidence was given by Mr. James that Mr. Potts had been in his employ as assistant and had left. Evidence was also given by other witnesses, and statutory declarations were read, all of which went to show that they were clients or in the service of clients of Mr. James, and had been solicited by Mr. Potts, and that in some instances he had offered to do the work for less than Mr. James. Mr. Potts gave evidence on his own behalf, and in some cases admitted soliciting Mr. James' clients, but extenuating circumstances were pleaded by his counsel. The Committee unanimously found-(I.) That the charge of Mr. Potts soliciting Mr. James' clients was established; (2.) The Committee have received satisfactory proof that Mr. Potts had been guilty of conduct disgraceful in a professional respect, and must so report to the Council. The complaint of a practitioner against another practitioner for unprofessional conduct in obtaining another member's clients was then proceeded with. Both practitioners were present. The SOLICITOR having read the complaint, the counsel for the practitioner complained of submitted that no case was shown against his client. The Committee went into consultation, and ultimately arrived at the unanimous finding that the charge, as formulated in the complaint, was not such as could be investigated by the Committee. The next complaint was against a practitioner for unprofessional conduct. The practitioner appeared, together with his Solicitor. The Council's Solicitor read a conviction in the Lambeth Police Court against the practitioner complained of, on three cases for cruelly ill-treating dogs and cats. The practitioner gave evidence, from which it appeared that the charge was in respect of dogs and cats stated to have been neglected and starved. It was alleged in extenuation that the neglect really was by persons employed by the practitioner. Witnesses were called on his behalf to show that food had been supplied and the animals attended to. The Solicitor, who appeared for him in the Police Court, gave evidence why an appeal had not been lodged. The Committee unanimously found that the practitioner had been guilty of conduct disgraceful in a professional sense, and recommended that he be directed to appear before the Council for the purpose of being severely censured from the Chair. Mr. SIMPSON then left the Chair, which was taken by the President, and Mr. Gray appeared in support of an application and statements he had made with regard to the Council and Registration Committee generally, and certain members in particular, as to a list of veterinary surgeons published by the Dogs' Protection League. After making a statement, and some discussion, Mr. Gray acquiesced in the finding of the Registration Committee of the 1st October 1903, and withdrew his accusations against the Council, the Committee, and the particular members. Mr. SIMPSON also read the report of a meeting of the Registration Committee held on April 7th. It was stated that the Solicitor read some correspondence with the clerk of the County Council of Midlothian. It directed that copies of the general resolution of the 1st October last be I

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'Sent to the clerk of the County Council and to a practitioner, and did not 'Suggest any further action in the matter. The SECRETARY read a letter from a practitioner with regard to the names of certain members appearing in block type in a Directory, but after hearing a statement from the Solicitor it was decided in the first instance to send a letter to each gentlemen inviting an explanation. A letter from :a practitioner to the effect that two members of Council were advertising was read, and dismissed as frivolous, no case whatever being shown in the opinion of the Committee. The Committee had the application of two gentlemen for restoration, their names having been struck off in consequence of non-compliance with t he Act. They considered the evidence tendered as satisfactory, and recommended the Council to restore the names of Messrs. Nathan Molyneux and Duncan Macdonald on payment of the usual fees. The SOLICITOR reported in detail the efforts which had been made by a defendant in a case to comply with the requirements of the Council. The Committee were of opinion that the defendant had done all in his power to carry this out, and recommended that no further action be taken <>n the resolution of the Council in January last. The SOLICITOR reported that the off~~ce in another case had been discontinued, and the Committee made the same recommendation as in the last case. The SOLICITOR reported interviews and negotiations with the AgentGeneral of Western Australia and the Criminal Investigation Department, who recommended a prosecution in Western Australia, but which the Solicitor had not undertaken without authority to incur the expense. The Committee recommended that the action of the Solicitor be approved and that no further proceedings be taken at present. The Committee further recommended that it be referred to the Examination Committee to consider whether steps should not be taken in the printing of the Diplomas to render forgery impossible. The SOLICITOR reported that he had received undertakings in certain cases where he had instructions to prosecute unless such undertakings were given. The SOLICITOR reported that in a case the defendant had been prosecuted, convicted, and fined £10 and costs, and in another case the defendant had been prosecuted, convicted, and fined £5 and costs. In another case the defendant held the veterinary certificate of the Highland and Agricultural Society and had been guilty of advertising by the issue of a circular- He was summoned to appear, but did not attend. The Committee considered him guilty of conduct disgraceful in a professional respect, and suggested that he should be deprived of his rights as a veterinary surgeon, in accordance with Section 2 of the Veterinary Surgeons (Amendment) Act, 1900, unless he gave an undertaking to discontinue the offence within fourteen days after notice. The Committee recommended prosecutions against unqualified persons in certain cases, and referred other cases to the Solicitor for inquiry, report, and opinion. Undertakings had been received from several persons complained of and satisfactory explanations from others. ' In one case, that of a Canadian veterinary surgeon who had served in t he South African war, and had been granted the honorary rank of veterinary Captain in H.M. Army, the committee suggested that a protest

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should be sent to the War Office or other competent authority. The Committee recommended cautionary notices in some cases, directed the defendant to appear before them in others, and considered that no case had been shown in others. Mr. MULVEY said the finding of the Committee was that Mr. Potts had been guilty of conduct disgraceful in a professional respect, and he moved that his name be removed from the Register. Mr. WRAGG seconded the motion. Mr. THATCHER stated that he had been asked by the Solicitor to Mr. Potts to read some testimonials. It was agreed that the testimonials should not be read. The motion was then put and carried, twenty-two members voting in iits favour. On the motion of Mr. MULVEY, seconded by Mr. LOCKE, the report was adopted, and authority given for certain prosecutions. On the motion of Mr. SIMPSON it was agreed that the member of the profession summoned to appear before the Council should be called in. The practitioner was then called in and severely censured by the President, who stated that the member had been proved guilty of negligence in permitting some of tl;le lower animals, whose business it was his to look after, to die of starvation. No words that he could use could express the abhorrence of the Council that a man calling himself a veterinary surgeon, and supposed to be of "all men filled with humanity, should behave himself in such a way. The practitioner must remember .that when he became a member of the College he undertook to protect its honour as well as his own. He had disgraced the College as well as himself. He trusted it would be a lesson to him. The practitioner then withdrew. EXAMINATION COMMITTEE. Mr. MULVEY read the following report of the Examination Committee and moved its adoption . It stated that at a meeting held on 7th April reports on the conduct of the examinations held in Scotland last December, as ordered by the Council, were very carefully considered by the Sub-Committee, and as a result the following was passed as a recommendation :-" That the Council regret to learn that in the December examinations in Scotland some of the examinations were not carried out in accordance with the programme drawn up by the Secretary and communicated to the candidates. The Council trust that such occurrences may be obviated in the future, and it appears to them this might be attained if the Secretary would draw up as soon as possible after receipt of the candidates' fees a draft time-table and submit it to the Chairmen of the various sections, in order that it may be modified if necessary to suit the convenience of the majority of the examiners, providing such modification would not interfere with the proper conduct of the examination;" Mr. WARTNABY seconded the motion, which was carried. Mr. MULVEY read the report of a further meeting of the Examination Committee held on the 7th instant, at which a letter was read asking if a student could corne up for examination in May next who would not be of age until the 23rd January 1905. The Committee after due consideration decided that under bye-law 92 he would not be eligible until the December examination 1904. The Committee had before them two certificates held

The Veterz"nary Journal. oTer for inquiry from previous meeting, which were accepted after further evidence. All the educational certificates were passed with the exception of one, which was referred for further investigation. On the motion of Professor DEWAR, seconded by Mr. MULVEY, the report was adopted. SUB-EXAMINATION COMMITTEE. Professor METTAM read the following report of the Sub-Examination Committee, and moved its adoption. It stated that at a meeting held on the 7th inst. re Syllabus, the Committee had before them the suggested amended Syllabus, and after careful consideration of the correspondencerelating thereto, it was agreed that the meeting stand adjourned, with the· request that the Committee should be called earlier in the day in future. Mr. BYRNE seconded the motion, which was adopted. LIBRARY AND MUSEUM COMMITTEE. Professor METTAM read the report, which stated that at a meeting held on the 7th inst. the Committee inspected the skeleton of Eclipse, and Professor Shave undertook to see Messrs. Gerrard and obtain their opinion in writing as to the best method of dealing with the skeleton. TheCommittee recommended that a Curator be appointed at a salary of £20. for one year, and that a sum of not less than £10 be allocated for material. It was resolved that a Sub-committee be appointed to act with the Curator, and that on examination of the specimens any found worthless and unfit for further preservation the Sub-committee be empowered to get rid of. It was suggested that the Sub-committee consist of Professor Shave, Professor Mettam, and Mr. Dollar, and that they have power to appoint a Curator. On the motion of Professor METTAM the report was adopted. GENERAL PURPOSES COMMITTEE. The SECRETARY read the report, which stated that at a meeting held on the 7th inst. the architect produced plans showing the alteration proposed in the yard of the house of No. II, next door, which involved an additional height of four feet to the party wall, which would affect the light of the library and lower rooms. It was unanimously resolved to recommend the Council to leave it in the hands of the architect to make the best arrangement in his power. In reply to a question by Mr. Simpson, Mr. THATCHER explained the matter to the Council. The report was unanimously adopted. ELECTION OF EXAMINERS FOR THE MEMBERSHIP EXAMINATION. On- the motion of Colonel DUCK, seconded by Professor DEWAR, the· Council went into Committee for the purpose of discussing matters in. connection with future examinations, Mr. Mulvey protesting against the procedure. The Council having come out of Committee, proceeded to elect the Examiners for the membership examinations. The following Examiners were elected :-

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CLASS A.

Anatomy of Domesticated Animals.-Messrs. W. Robb and J. Blakeway, being the only two gentlemen nominated, were unanimously elected. ""':: Chemistry and Elementary Physics. -The aallot resulted as follows : H. Somerville 23; J. M. H. Munro 24; W. R. Smith I. The President declared Messrs. Somerville and Munro elected. : : Biology, Elementary Zoology, and Botany.-J. R. Ainsworth Davis 24; ]. Reynolds Green 21 ; J. Brodie Gresswell I. The President declared Messrs. Davis and Green elected. CLASS B.

Anatomy of Domesticated Animals.-E. Wallis Hoare 23; W. F. Peacock 13; H. G. Bowes II; W. Cargill Patrick I. The President
Morbid Anatomy, Pathology, and Bacteriology.- W. Bulloch 20; E. R. Butler 19; ,J. S. Lloyd 3; J. Peddie 2; W. R. Smith I. The President declared Messrs. Bulloch and Butler elected. Materia Medica, Pharmacy, &>c.-J. Clark 21; F . T. G. Hobday 18; J. Brodie Gresswell 2. The President declared Messrs. Clark and Hobday elected. Veterinary Hy~'ene and Dietelics.-W. Woods 17 ; J. A. Nunn 14; ]. A. Meredith II; J. M'Lauc~lan Young I; R. Porch I. The President
Principles and Practice of Veterinary Medicine.-The PRESIDENT.Colonel Nunn has been elected in a previous class, so that his name will be struck out here. Mr. WRAGG.-I beg to move that Messrs. Bloye and Almond, the other two gentlemen nominated, be elected. (Agreed to.) Principles and Practtce of Vetert;lary S urgery.-The PRESIDENT.Mr. Woods' name comes out here, as he has already been elected. The ballot resulted as follows :-W. Hunting 22; R. Hickes 17; H. C. Reeks 3. The President declared Messrs. Hunting and Hickes elected. Election of Examiners for Fellowship Examinaft'ons.-The Council proceeded to elect by ballot the Examiners for the Fellowship Examination, which resulted as follows. Veterinary Medicine and Surgery.-J. Macqueen IS; W. Woods 3; \ C. Rutherford 2. The President declared Professor Macqueen elected. Veterinary Hygiene and Sanitary Sa·ence.-W. Hunting 18; J. A. Nunn I ; J. M'Lauchlan Young I. The President declared Mr. Hunting elected.

The Veter£nary fournat. Pathology and Bacteriology.-J. Malcolm 17; C. Rutherford 3. P resident declared Mr. Malcolm elected.

The

ELECTION OF EXAMINERS FOR THE WALLEY MEMORIAL AND JUBILEE MEMORIAL AND BURSARY EXAMINATIONS. Owing to the fact that Examiners had not been nominated in severaL subjects for the Walley Memorial and Jubilee Memorial. and Bursary Examinations, Mr. MULVEY moved" That the election of Examiners for the Walley Memorial and the Bursary Prize be deferred till the next Ordinary Meeting of Council, and that in the meantime the Secretary take the usua)) steps to advertise them." After a short discussion the resolution was adopted. DATE OF FELLOWSHIP EXAMINATION. On the motion of Mr. WRAGG, seconded by Mr. SIMPSON, it was. received that the Fellowship Examination should be held in London on Saturday, May 14th. It was received that the dates of the Walley Memorial and Jubilee Memorial Examinations should be fixed at the next meeting of Council. APPOINTMENT OF SCRUTINEERS. On the motion of Mr. MULVEY, seconded ,by Mr. SIMPSON, it was agreed that the same gentlemen be reappointed as served last year, and that in the event of there being any vacancies the President be asked to fill them up. PLACE OF ANNUAL MEETING AND ANNUAL DINNER. On the motion of the President, seconded by Mr. LAWSON, it was unanimously resolved that the Annual Meeting be held in Edinburgh on Wednesday, the 1st of June, the President, in reply to Mr. Simpson~ guaranteeing that there would be a larger attendance in Edinburgh than at the last meeting in London. On the motion of the President it was agreed that the Annual Dinner should be held in Edinburgh on the same evening, and it was also resolved that a sum not exceeding £20 should be allowed the President for the' entertainment of distinguished guests. The President, Professor McCall, and Professor Dewar were appointed as the Dinner Committee. MOTION BY PROFESSOR M'FADYEAN. Professor M'FADYEAN moved, "That a Committee of Council be appointed to consider and to report to the Council regarding the nature o~ the privileges conferred by affiliation to the Royal College of Veterinary Surge-ons, and the question whether these privileges can be disposed of by sale or otherwise without the consent of the Council." In doing so he said he thought it was highly important that the Council should be well informed as to the nature of the privileges conferred by affiliation to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, because he had discovered that there was a good deal of ignorance on the subject among Members of Council. Personally he only wanted to know where

Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.

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they were and how the matter stood. He suggested that a committee be appointed, composed of Messrs. Simpson, Wragg, and Mulvey, to report tothe Council at the special meeting which was to be held. Mr. SIMPSON thought the matter was purely a question of the interpretation of the Charter, and suggested to Professor M'Fadyean that it would answer the same purpose if a resolution were passed to the effect that the Solicitor be requested to investigate the Charter Act, and to report his opinion, and if necessary to take counsel's opinion with regard' to it. Professor M'FADYEAN thought it would be much the simpler procedure" to appoint a committee, and let them put viva voce to the Solicitor the points which appeared somewhat obscure. He feared that if one merely asked the Solicitor to give an opinion on the question generally something might be omitted which was pertinent. He therefore moved that a committee, composed of Messrs. Simpson, Wragg, and Mulvey, be' appointed in accordance with the resolution. Mr. DOLLAR seconded the motion. The PRESIDENT suggested that the proposer and seconder should beadded to the committee, and also Dr. M'Call. Professor M'FADYEAN agreed to the suggestion. Mr. THATCHER asked the representatives of the five Colleges who were present to send to him the different authorities under which they acted. The resolution that a committee composed of Messrs. Wragg, Mulvey,. Simpson, Dollar, Dr. M'Call, and Professor M'Fadyean be appointed in accordance with the resolution, to confer with the Solicitor, and that the Solicitor be requested to obtain the Charters of the various Schools and Colleges for consideration, was then put and carried. It was also agreed that the first meeting of the committee should be held on Wednesday, April 13th, at three o'clock. / This concluded the business of the Quarterly Meeting of Council. A special meeting of Council was held immediately following the quarterly meeting. The PRESIDENT (Professor W. O. Williams) occupied the chair, and the' following members were present :-Veterinary-Colonel Duck, Professors Dewar, M'1. M'Call, James M'L M'Call, M'Fadyean, and Mettamj. Messrs. Abson, Byrne, Dollar, Lawson, Locke, Mason, Mulvey, Shipley, Simpson, Villar, Wartnaby, and Wragg, Mr. Thatcher (Solicitor), and Mr. Hill (Secretary). Mr. BYRNE mOTed the following alteration of Bye-law 76, of which he' had given notice :"76. Each Candidate for the office of examiner shall, at least fourteen days before the date of election, intimate in writing to the Secretary, either by himself, or, with his consent, by a member of the Royal College 01 Veterinary Surgeons, his desire to be appointed, and submit with his application a statement of his qualificatt"o1ls and a copy of aIry testimonials he may possess as to his special fitness for the position he seeks. " The name and qualifications of each candidate shall be suspended on the notice Board at the College as and when received, and appear on the circular convening the meeting at which the Examiners are to be appointed. "Each Examiner shall be elected for such period, not exceeding three: years, as the Council may think fit.

The Veterinary Journal. "Each E xaminer shall be eligible for re-election_ Any Examiner shall be removed by the vote of two-thirds of the members present at any meeting of Council, to be confirmed by a special meeting called for the purpose." In doing so, he said he had not been able to vote for many of the <:andidates who had been elected in the recent election, because he kuew nothing of them ; the mere fact that they were Doctors of Medicine or Fellows of the Royal College did not enable him to judge whether they would make good Examiners or not, and he thought the alteration was necessary in order that members of Council might be enabled to elect the best possible man. Professor METTAM seconded the motion. In reply to a question of Mr. Mulvey'S, Mr. BYRNE said that in his opinion, if a candidate had not any testimonials and could not get any, he would be necessarily barred from filling the office of Examiner. Mr. MULVEY asked the Solicitor to state whether the candidate would be necessarily barred from standing for election if he did not send in testimonials. Mr. DOLLAR thought Mr. Byrne's view was only a pious expression of opinion, and contended that the bye-law as framed was perfectly clear. Professor M'FADYEAN thought it would be wise if the Solicitor would state that the mere fact of a candidate not having sent in a testimonial would not bar him from being elected, and if that were recorded in the minutes he would be perfectly satisfied. Mr. SIMPSON continued the discussion, and stated that he thought the wording should be made clearer. Mr. THATCHER said he thought the candidate must give a statement of his qualifications, but it was optional if he did not give a copy of any testimonials. The proposed words were "he may possess." He might not possess any. He imagined that the thing would filter down into this, either the man would have to be very well known, or he would send testimonials, otherwise he would think he would have no chance of obtaining election. He thought the bye-law might pass as it was drawn. The motion was then put and carried, 10 voting for and 3 against. MOTION BY MR. WRAGG. Mr. WRAGG moved the following alteration of bye-law 15 :-" Notices of meetings shall be issued by the Secretary at least seven days previous to Council and other meetings; exclusive both of the day on which they are issued and the day on which the meeting shall take place." He said the object of the alteration was merely in order that the members of the Council might have a little more notice. Mr. MULVEY seconded the motion. Mr. THATCHER pointed out that under the proposed alteration practically nine days notice had to be given. After a short discussion, Mr. Wragg, with the permission of the Council, withdrew his motion, and gave notice of the following amended notice of motion:"Notices of meetings shall be issued by the Secretary at least seven days previous to Council and other meetings, except by direction of the President." On the motion of Mr. ABSON, seconded by Mr. DOLLAR, a vote of

Rhodes£an Redwater, or Ajrz'can Coast Fever.

251

t hanks was accorrled to the President for his conduct in the Chair, and the meeting terminated. At the conclusion of the above meeting, the President called a Special Meeting of Council at which, on the motion of Mr. Mulvey, seconded by Mr. Simpson, the Secretary was instructed to insure the valuable insignia of office presented to the Council by Mr. Dollar for £ 20.

Glriginal IPapers. RHODESIAN REDWATER, OR AFRICAN COAST FEVER.

DR.

KOCH'S THIRD REPORT.

IN continuing the record of the African coast fever investigation, it will be remembered that ill my second report I explained that, while a single injection of a susceptible animal with blood drawn from an animal in the acute stage of the disease did not reproduce the disorder in its characteristic form, repeated injections with such blood appeared to induce a mild attack characterised by an elevation of temperature, and the appearance of a certain number of parasites in the circulating blood. From this I surmised that there was a possibility of a certain degree of immunity being established by such successive inoculations, the extent whereof could only be gauged by submitting such inoculated animals to some method of infection severe enough to induce, in unprotected animals, an attack of African coast fever of an intensity similar to that ordinarily communicated by natural veld infection. The discovery of such means of infection was greatly to be desired, in order that we might be able to test the serum which we had prepared, and to decide certain other questions of importance. Various experiments were made to achieve this end. The mild infection induced by repeated injections of blood taken from sick animals was passed through a series of healthy cattle in order to determine whether the virulence of such attacks might not be heightened by such a transfer; but passage from one animal to another through five animals in nowise intensified the severity of the attack, the last animal reacting no more severely than the first. This experiment, however, proves that under certain conditions the organisms of coast fever may multiply and reproduce themselves in the blood of artificially infected animals, even when they give rise to no visible indications of disease. Our experiments have also shown that inoculations with the blood of re~overed animals, which only contains an inconsiderable number of single parasites, will induce similar modified attacks of African coast fever, and while these experiments have not been numerous, they tend to indicate that recovered animals are even more suitable for inoculation purposes than those which are actually sick. In other directions we sought for It means of communicating the disease in its virulent form. For instance, intraocular injections with infected blood were tried without effect, and we also endeavoured by means of tick infection experiments to imitate natural methods. For this purpose 'Cultures of the various varieties of suspected ticks were observed. At first N.S. VOL. IX.

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