- Email: [email protected]
Tutorials
XIII TUTORIALS
may lead to an economy of up to of course is quite apprecia~le.
~0 % ,
which
~rtificial intelligence, automatic control and development
Power systems control and automation P. Albertos (Spain): In your talk I have heard nothing about instrumentation problems especinlly measurement device selection and location . Perhaps that means for you that the measurement system design techniques used nowadays are good enough? M.Ribbens-Pavella : Instrumentation problems play of course a very important role in the field of power system control and automation even if I did not ta ( kle it for obvious reasons of time limitations. Within the particular context of a state estimator not only the kind and quality of devices but also their location should be selected carefully. Indeed the quality of the state estimation (reliability, optimality, anomalous data analysis) highly depends upon the (local and global) redundancy and hence upon the "degree of observability" of the system. A. Alonso-Concheiro (Mexico) : One can usually speak of an optimal solution for give problem only when one knows either the region of solutions or at least knows some properties of the solution set. I believe this is not the case in power load-flow programs(solution regi ons are not even convex sets).C oul d you please comment on what "optimal load-flow" solutions should be taken to mean? M.Ribbens-Pavella : Generally, one knows quite a few properties and therefore one possesses a good guess of the load-flow solution of a given power system, moreover, whenevef it exists, this solution generally belongs to a convex set. Hence, apart from rare special cases, tha load-flow programs work well and converge s~tisfactorily . Concerning the optimal load flow soluti ons, there is always a trad-off between security and economy. Properly used, these optimal load-flow programs 585
A.Van Cauwenber0he(Relgium) Do you see the use of industrial robots such that new tasks will be performed by them, or rather as a substitute to perform work which is already executed now but in better conditions such that more free time could become available for mankind? T. Vamos : I thind the appropriate answer is mostly the second version. The development of new demands on foods and services is an other branch of progress, the two may somehow crnssfertilise each other, but the main area of robot application should be a replacement of men in unhuman works . A. Abisourour (Morocco) : Is there any international cooperation on artificial intelligence ? HO~I ? T. Vamos : The main channel of cooperation is the intellectual connection of AI research through publications, meetings learning from each other.Some societies ~x istin this field as the AI Soc. of America, the International Pattern Recognition Conference,etc. We have also visitors, our research fellows have connections with many pioneering groups, expecially in the IJS, Japan ,and IISSR. The other channel of international cooperation is now starting by the industry standards, some bi g companies, which standardise the tools for application by their advanded products as IR~ did in the computer field. Y. Sevely (France) : I would like to mention to prof. Vamos that in France a national program on robotics for which research has been carried out in a number of Universities as well as CNRS Laboratoires, like the LAAS in particular where I am, under the scientific direction of ~r. r,iralt. I would like also to
586
Tutorials
point out that the University Paul Sabatier at Toulouse started, last year an engineering degree on Artificial intelligence, pattern recognition, and robotics, for which the program I will be glad to discuss with Prof. Vamos. T. Vamos : I have to apologiz not mentioning the excellent French groups in this field. Prof. Simon in Paris is one of the pionners artificial intelligence, a very efficient group is working with Lacombe in Grencb le, but really the most strong groups are concen trated in Toulouse, they have a brilliant intelligent robot project, a robot equipped with all kind of sensors and with the ability of avoiding an obstacles in it's movement. Several other application projects and basic tools developed by them are well known. An important research is going on in France at very high level: AI languages, e.g. ,PRnLOG. Medical information systems A. Belmehdi (Morocco) :Comment on Adaptation and acceptance of computer system in medical infonnation systems: Anyinnovation isbound to meet some resistance. One has to start to work with innovators who usually represent 5% of the target pupulation. This will save time and permit quicker generalization of the ~ew technology. Analogy was made with extension service in Agriculture.
they will appreciate the importance of medical information systems. Ksouri (Tunisia) 1) Introducing informatics to medical systems meets difficulty because the medical schools curricula remains archaic and unactapted to modern technological evolution. ?) I would like to know if systems like the ones you have described exist at some hospitals in developinq countries. t~.
t1.A.R.GhonaiI'lY 1) In o~der to introduce medical information systems in curricula of medical schools, it is essential that the medical staff will have some hands-on exper ience first. That is why implementing an experimential medical inforl'la· tion system is of utmost importance in this respect. 2) To my knowledge, no developing country has implemented its own medical information system, sOl'le countriesmay have acquired a turn-key system Water resource allocation (I,. (I,bi sourour ('10rocco) 1) The d i anram of branches doesen't ta ke into consideration exante evaluation of projects. ?) Table 1 is based on outdated information (before 1972 october war).
A. Abi sourour .U~orocco): How can we avoi done social problem that may arise when putting up medical subsyst€m namely the refusal from some medical staff to cooperate and help the system work? should the technicians in charge expiain every thing to everybody or avoid explaning too much about the new system before it starts working in a regular manner?
L. Valadares Tavares 1) 'lo, it does: appraisal stages (c ' P, cOIl, because"exante evaluation" is called aflpraisal rather than evaluation. 2) All statistical tables are based on past information. However, these ones are sufficiently recent to understand the relation between water sllpply and demand (oil crisis was already in progress during 1973 ).
t1.A.R.Ghonaimy : It is essential that close cooperation should always exist between information system specialist and the medical staff The only way to convince the medical staff is to implement a prototype system through which
A. IIlonso roncheiro U'lexico) 1) j"hat is meant hy "societal goal" ? HO~I are they determined? ?) ~n essential pro~lem, particularly in deve10flin~ countries, is the lack of data to
Tutorials
design and operate a water supply system . The importance of this fact should be stressed. L. Valadares Tavares 1) Well define"d objectives and targets to be achieved by the whole society within a given
587
horizon.They are determined through social discussion, central & local decision. 2) Inadequacy of data is a crucial problem for developing countries. The estimation of the information value for making decisions can help to solve this problem.
may lead to an economy of up to of course is quite apprecia~le.
~0 % ,
which
~rtificial intelligence, automatic control and development
Power systems control and automation P. Albertos (Spain): In your talk I have heard nothing about instrumentation problems especinlly measurement device selection and location . Perhaps that means for you that the measurement system design techniques used nowadays are good enough? M.Ribbens-Pavella : Instrumentation problems play of course a very important role in the field of power system control and automation even if I did not ta ( kle it for obvious reasons of time limitations. Within the particular context of a state estimator not only the kind and quality of devices but also their location should be selected carefully. Indeed the quality of the state estimation (reliability, optimality, anomalous data analysis) highly depends upon the (local and global) redundancy and hence upon the "degree of observability" of the system. A. Alonso-Concheiro (Mexico) : One can usually speak of an optimal solution for give problem only when one knows either the region of solutions or at least knows some properties of the solution set. I believe this is not the case in power load-flow programs(solution regi ons are not even convex sets).C oul d you please comment on what "optimal load-flow" solutions should be taken to mean? M.Ribbens-Pavella : Generally, one knows quite a few properties and therefore one possesses a good guess of the load-flow solution of a given power system, moreover, whenevef it exists, this solution generally belongs to a convex set. Hence, apart from rare special cases, tha load-flow programs work well and converge s~tisfactorily . Concerning the optimal load flow soluti ons, there is always a trad-off between security and economy. Properly used, these optimal load-flow programs 585
A.Van Cauwenber0he(Relgium) Do you see the use of industrial robots such that new tasks will be performed by them, or rather as a substitute to perform work which is already executed now but in better conditions such that more free time could become available for mankind? T. Vamos : I thind the appropriate answer is mostly the second version. The development of new demands on foods and services is an other branch of progress, the two may somehow crnssfertilise each other, but the main area of robot application should be a replacement of men in unhuman works . A. Abisourour (Morocco) : Is there any international cooperation on artificial intelligence ? HO~I ? T. Vamos : The main channel of cooperation is the intellectual connection of AI research through publications, meetings learning from each other.Some societies ~x istin this field as the AI Soc. of America, the International Pattern Recognition Conference,etc. We have also visitors, our research fellows have connections with many pioneering groups, expecially in the IJS, Japan ,and IISSR. The other channel of international cooperation is now starting by the industry standards, some bi g companies, which standardise the tools for application by their advanded products as IR~ did in the computer field. Y. Sevely (France) : I would like to mention to prof. Vamos that in France a national program on robotics for which research has been carried out in a number of Universities as well as CNRS Laboratoires, like the LAAS in particular where I am, under the scientific direction of ~r. r,iralt. I would like also to
586
Tutorials
point out that the University Paul Sabatier at Toulouse started, last year an engineering degree on Artificial intelligence, pattern recognition, and robotics, for which the program I will be glad to discuss with Prof. Vamos. T. Vamos : I have to apologiz not mentioning the excellent French groups in this field. Prof. Simon in Paris is one of the pionners artificial intelligence, a very efficient group is working with Lacombe in Grencb le, but really the most strong groups are concen trated in Toulouse, they have a brilliant intelligent robot project, a robot equipped with all kind of sensors and with the ability of avoiding an obstacles in it's movement. Several other application projects and basic tools developed by them are well known. An important research is going on in France at very high level: AI languages, e.g. ,PRnLOG. Medical information systems A. Belmehdi (Morocco) :Comment on Adaptation and acceptance of computer system in medical infonnation systems: Anyinnovation isbound to meet some resistance. One has to start to work with innovators who usually represent 5% of the target pupulation. This will save time and permit quicker generalization of the ~ew technology. Analogy was made with extension service in Agriculture.
they will appreciate the importance of medical information systems. Ksouri (Tunisia) 1) Introducing informatics to medical systems meets difficulty because the medical schools curricula remains archaic and unactapted to modern technological evolution. ?) I would like to know if systems like the ones you have described exist at some hospitals in developinq countries. t~.
t1.A.R.GhonaiI'lY 1) In o~der to introduce medical information systems in curricula of medical schools, it is essential that the medical staff will have some hands-on exper ience first. That is why implementing an experimential medical inforl'la· tion system is of utmost importance in this respect. 2) To my knowledge, no developing country has implemented its own medical information system, sOl'le countriesmay have acquired a turn-key system Water resource allocation (I,. (I,bi sourour ('10rocco) 1) The d i anram of branches doesen't ta ke into consideration exante evaluation of projects. ?) Table 1 is based on outdated information (before 1972 october war).
A. Abi sourour .U~orocco): How can we avoi done social problem that may arise when putting up medical subsyst€m namely the refusal from some medical staff to cooperate and help the system work? should the technicians in charge expiain every thing to everybody or avoid explaning too much about the new system before it starts working in a regular manner?
L. Valadares Tavares 1) 'lo, it does: appraisal stages (c ' P, cOIl, because"exante evaluation" is called aflpraisal rather than evaluation. 2) All statistical tables are based on past information. However, these ones are sufficiently recent to understand the relation between water sllpply and demand (oil crisis was already in progress during 1973 ).
t1.A.R.Ghonaimy : It is essential that close cooperation should always exist between information system specialist and the medical staff The only way to convince the medical staff is to implement a prototype system through which
A. IIlonso roncheiro U'lexico) 1) j"hat is meant hy "societal goal" ? HO~I are they determined? ?) ~n essential pro~lem, particularly in deve10flin~ countries, is the lack of data to
Tutorials
design and operate a water supply system . The importance of this fact should be stressed. L. Valadares Tavares 1) Well define"d objectives and targets to be achieved by the whole society within a given
587
horizon.They are determined through social discussion, central & local decision. 2) Inadequacy of data is a crucial problem for developing countries. The estimation of the information value for making decisions can help to solve this problem.