- Email: [email protected]
A conversation with rear admiral Louise Wilmot: Taking the lead and leading the way
The highest-ranking woman in the U.S. Navy when she retired in 1994, Admiral Louise Wilmot discusses frankly her experiences with sex discrimination, her attitudes toward women in the military, and her views of male versus female leaders. The admiral outlines her career strategies, leadership style, what it is like to be a leader of a military versus a civilian organization, and how to successfully bring about change in a traditional organization.
A Conversation with RearAdmiral Louise Wilmot: Taking the Lead and Leading the Way INTERVIEWED BY ELLEN FAGENSON-ELAND A N D PAMELAJ. KIDDER
ear Admiral Wilmot was the most senior oman in the United States Navy when she retired in 1994. She was the first woman to command a naval base. She served in the Navy for 30 years and held three positions while serving as an admiral, including Commander of the United States Naval Base in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Vice Chief of Naval Education and Training, Pensacola, Florida; and Commander of the Naval Training Center in Orlando, Florida. She also served as the Executive Assistant for Manpower and Reserve Affairs in Washington, D.C. Before retiring, Admiral Wilmot was the highest-decorated woman in the U.S. Navy. She received the Navy Distinguished Supe80
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
rior Service Medal, the Legion of Merit (with three gold stars), the Meritorious Service Medal, and the Joint Service Commendations Medal. She is listed in Wh0's Who in America. Working Woman magazine (NovemberDecember, 1996) named her as one of the w o m e n who "changed the world" during 1976 to 1996. She is currently the Deputy Executive Director of Catholic Relief Services in Baltimore, Maryland. Interviews conducted with the admiral over a period of several months are excerpted for this article. Ellen A. Fagenson-Eland is an associate professor at George Mason University's School of Management and Pamela J. Kidder is a private consultant.
INTERVIEWER:
You have certainly had a v e r y interesting and challenging career. You spent a p p r o x i m a t e l y 30 years in the U n i t e d States N a v y , an o r g a n i z a t i o n often described as one of the last male bastions in the world. The press tells us that this organization is rife with issues related to integration of w o m e n into the workforce--discrimination and harassment. Yet, y o u w e r e a great success b y a n y o n e ' s standards. H o w did you achieve such a great level of success?
WILMOT:
With a good dose of naivet6 and t r e m e n d o u s enthusiasm! I d i d n ' t join the N a v y with the concept that I was joining an all-male organization. Certainly, m y initial experiences in the N a v y didn't support that fact. I began m y career in W o m e n Officer's Candidate School, which primarily consisted of w o m e n training women. At m y first d u t y station, the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida, there was a w o m a n lieutenant commander, w h o was a p p o i n t e d to be the senior representative for women. She was wonderful and charismatic and took us u n d e r her wing. There also w e r e some v e r y senior enlisted w o m e n from w h o m I learned a lot. In those very early two years of m y career in the Navy, it n e v e r s e e m e d to me that I was isolated.
INTERVIEWER:
It's v e r y interesting h o w our early experiences in organizations can impact our entire careers. In describing y o u r early years, y o u talked about people w h o i m p a c t e d y o u r life. We read about the i m p o r t a n c e of mentors. W h e n y o u e n t e r e d the Navy, there w e r e no w o m e n admirals. You obviously c o u l d n ' t look at a female role model and say, "That is w h e r e I shall stand some day." Was there an individual (or several), a w o m a n or a man, w h o m y o u w o u l d describe as a mentor?
WILMOT:
Oh, yes. I had m a n y mentors, male and female, in m y career. I couldn't n a m e just one because there were one or two at every place I served.
INTERVIEWER:
H o w and w h y did you choose y o u r mentors?
WILMOT:
T h e y were all intriguing personalities and very different from one another. One of my mentors was one rank ahead of me. She was a v e r y strong person with a clear idea of what w o m e n o u g h t to be doing. I t h o u g h t we w o r k e d well together and she was a great ally. She was also s o m e b o d y w h o could help me think m y w a y t h r o u g h m y emotions to the issues, particularly w h e n I was working on equal o p p o r t u n i t y issues at the Bureau of N a v y Personnel. W h e n y o u see blatant discrimination, there are a lot of emotions. She was instrumental in helping me sift through the facts, put an a r g u m e n t together, and act. Another m e n t o r was an admiral and she was a fantastic role model. It was amazing just to see h o w she acted, how she m o v e d t h r o u g h the organization, h o w she accepted her role as admiral. I was also in awe of her great sense of balance and her e n o r m o u s dignity with h u m o r .
INTERVIEWER:
T h e r e has also b e e n significant discussion about the value of n e t w o r k i n g ; some e v e n say that it is especially important for "nontraditional" organizational members, such as a w o m a n in a p r e d o m i n a n t l y male organization, to network. Have you n e t w o r k e d in y o u r career? To w h a t extent have you netw o r k e d with w o m e n versus men? WINTER 2 0 0 0
81
WILMOT:
I believe that it is important to network with people, both men and women. People can give you valuable information and they can teach you how to get things done. When I was a junior officer there were so few women who could help you and give you advice that it was especially important to network with both men and women. Now there are more women who have been through it all and can give you their perspective.
INTERVIEWER:
You were very active in the Women's Professional Association. Many say that this organization provides a great opportunity for women to network. Could you talk a little about that organization and the value that you see in it?
WILMOT:
When I was transferred to Washington, D.C., the w o m a n who was the unofficial coordinator of the Women's Professional Association asked me to come to her house for dinner. We ate, drank some wine, and then she just looked at me and said, "I'm leaving, so here it is," and handed me a big cardboard box containing information about the Association. I decided that I would take the job she was handing me, but I needed to get organized. When I was putting this organization together, there were many people who said, "You can pull it together, Louise. But you should work in the background, to protect yourself, your reputation, and your career. You don't want to be out in front on this issue." I said, "Yes I do." I thought, this is ridiculous. I'm not going to have a front out there. I want to be out in front. A lot of people were concerned about the group. A lot of bosses said, "This is subversive. You can't do it."
INTERVIEWER: Why did they adopt this view? What was the threat of this organization? WILMOT:
82
They wanted to know: Why do all you women have to get together? Why do you have to have an organization? What's the deal? What's going on here? Well, male officers had their organizations. They had the Naval Academy Alumni Association, which had no women members at that time, because women weren't allowed into the Naval Academy. (The first class to graduate with women was in 1980.) Many of the military communities had their own organizations but since women weren't allowed to serve in some of them, we decided to have our own organization and to be inclusive, inviting all military and civilians in the Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard. ! knew that we had to have a powerful sponsor. I had a meeting with the Chief of Navy Personnel. I told him what we were doing and asked if he would be our sponsor. He said, "Of course I will. It's an important thing to do." He agreed to be our first speaker. We made him an honorary member. His support helped to inspire our members. We had a newsletter. The first story discussed the Chief of Navy Personnel's views about our group and why the Navy should support us. We gave copies to our members so they could discreetly leave them on their bosses' chairs! After that other prominent people came to speak to us: the Chief of Naval Operations, a three-star Marine general, the Assistant Secretary of the Navy, and others. We recorded their comments and highlighted what they said about us. That legitimized us. People often ask me why I headed the organization. I remember going into a meeting and entering a huge reception area filled with women officers.
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
There were two ensigns in front of me who said, "Would you look at all those women in uniform?" They had never seen so m a n y in one place! I became president of the Association for what those two w o m e n ensigns represented-the need for w o m e n officers of all ranks to meet and network. There was no forum for them to come together to discuss issues. Nobody wanted to hear about pregnancy issues. Nobody wanted to hear about problems with child care. Many male co-workers had the attitude of, "Tough it out, sweetie. We are the real Navy and those are not real problems." I thought there had to be a way to share information about jobs. I wondered, how can we help each other? We started having seminars. We were very successful in bringing in important speakers. They provided information and muscle. Washington understands muscle, and the muscle was the positive comments made by very senior people expressing approval for our organization. We quoted them when bosses didn't want to let women attend or discouraged them from coming. INTERVIEWER:
It sounds like some of the women encountered resistance if not outright discrimination. Did you ever encounter discrimination in your years in the Navy?
WILMOT:
Oh yes. Many, many years ago when I was stationed at a NATO command I came smack into discrimination against women. (These events occurred during 1966.)
INTERVIEWER:
What happened?
WILMOT:
There were certain jobs that all newly assigned lieutenants in the Navy or Army would do. Since I was a woman I was precluded from doing some of those jobs. They had to look around and find a different job for me. They made a job up, which was okay.
INTERVIEWER:
Did they just say flat out ,"You can't do that because you are a woman" or was it more subtle?
WILMOT:
No, no. It was flat out. The attitude was, "What are we going to do with her?" I managed to make it into something really good and important, but it was a struggle. I never felt that I had the support of my bosses at NATO, never.
INTERVIEWER:
Did you have any female bosses there?
WILMOT:
No, they were all men. I remember a situation in which there was an exercise requiring everybody to go to a remote site. The site had sleeping quarters. My boss said, "Well, you have to go take your turn at the remote site but you can't sleep out there. You will have to get on the bus and travel." I did. I was traveling from the city out to the remote site which was an hour plus ride, performing the d u t y I was supposed to do, then getting back on the bus and coming back. I was subsisting on three or four hours of sleep. Nobody else was being asked to do this. Nobody. I went to see a very senior woman Marine lieutenant colonel, and she said, "This is unfair. This is unjust." She suggested that I write a letter and pass it through the chain of command. That is what I did. They sat on it; they refused to forward it.
WINTER2000 83
INTERVIEWER:
I think it's hard for many of us to imagine such blatant discrimination. It doesn't sound as if there was even an attempt to make this unfair treatment "look" like something else.
WILMOT:
That's right, but remember this was 1966. It was considered okay because everybody did it! The military viewed w o m e n a certain way. They didn't view women as integral to the military, but as a group w h o would be there for a few years and then go away. That's the Navy I entered. It was a very nontraditional thing for a woman to join the Navy, but once she joined the expectations and career paths were limited.
INTERVIEWER:
You surprised them didn't you? Your jobs could be called almost anything but traditional. Could you talk a little about your w o r k in the Navy Senate Liaison Office?
WILMOT:
I had filled out my "work preference" request stating, in 36 different ways, that I wanted to go to San Diego, but I received a call saying that I was being transferred to Washington D.C., to the Navy Senate Liaison Office. Being a good Navy officer I said, "Thank you. I'll see you in Washington." I had three years in the Senate, from 1971 to 1974. It was an absolutely wonderful experience for me to be in that office.
INTERVIEWER:
That is quite a "plum" position for anyone, but I imagine especially for a woman, right? There weren't many female members of Congress either in the early 1970s.
WILMOT:
No, there weren't. Neither the Army, Air Force, nor the Marines had ever had women in their Senate Liaison Offices, but the N a v y had decided that they wanted women to serve in the U.S. Senate and U. S. House of Representatives.
INTERVIEWER:
What was your work like in that environment?
WILMOT :
Oh, it was unrelenting, but it was really interesting. We saw the Chief of Naval Operations, and the Secretary of the Navy all the time. It was during this time that the Secretary of the Navy had organized a study group on women. The Congress and the Department of Defense wanted standard procedures and legislation for dealing with male and female officers. A group, consisting mainly of Navy and Marine lawyers, was asked to identify laws that treated women differently from men.
INTERVIEWER:
Was this committee headed by a woman or a man?
WILMOT:
It was headed by a male captain, but there was female representation. The group proposed changes to almost 300 statutes, rewrote the laws, and in 1973 gave these changes to the Secretary of the Navy, w h o agreed to recommend changes to all the laws except two: the law precluding w o m e n from attending the Naval Academy and the 1948 legislation preventing women from serving aboard ships and in combat aircraft.
INTERVIEWER: What was your view?
WILMOT: 84
I said, "Change it! I want to be equal." One of the officers working on the com-
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
mittee said, "Well, Louise, I want to make you equal but you don't want to be as equal as they are proposing." I said, "Why are you making this decision for me?" These two laws were the cornerstones of life in the Navy. They had to change. INTERVIEWER:
That was very progressive thinking. Many members of Congress today would still not agree with those views.
WILMOT:
Exactly, but the Congress and a lot of women's lobbying interest groups got the Naval Academy entrance requirements changed. The rationale of the Navy had been, "Why should we pay for women's education when we can get them for free!" I talked with a woman captain who looked me right in the eye and said, "This is a matter of resources. We should pay for men, but not for women." I said, "Why would you devalue us?" She replied, "Well, you are not allowed to do the things that men can do." I said, "Maybe we should change that too!" The N a v y leadership was adamantly opposed to allowing women into the Naval Academy, but the decision was taken out of their hands. Congress changed the law.
INTERVIEWER:
My guess is that a lot of people from the Navy would describe your views as downright radical. Would you describe yourself as a feminist or activist?
WILMOT:
I think that I am someone who just saw that things weren't right and that they ought to be corrected. I think that if you see something that's wrong and you see that it's not just you personally who is suffering, but hundreds and thousands of others, then you should take action to try to correct these things.
INTERVIEWER:
When y o u say wrong, are you speaking from a moral or business perspective?
WILMOT:
I think it was wrong to deny women the opportunity for full service. I looked at this issue for women in the Navy and I saw no problem that could not be overcome. Women could serve on ships and fly planes and do all the things that the N a v y does. I think that women w h o want to defend their nation should be given the training and the opportunity to do it.
INTERVIEWER:
Do you think there are any jobs in the Navy from which women should be excluded?
WILMOT:
No.
INTERVIEWER:
What grade would you give the Navy if you had to give it a grade on how well it has done so far in achieving this goal?
WILMOT:
If I didn't give it an A+ on my own personal behalf, the decision makers would say, "Aren't you an ungrateful child!" I think I would give the Navy a good grade because we asked a very traditional organization to move into the future. W h e n I was much junior in rank, my point of view was different. Change wasn't h a p p e n i n g fast enough. I didn't believe that the Navy's arguments WINTER 2000
85
were good arguments. I think the Navy recognized that women could do the job, b u t it just wasn't going to change the rules. There is nothing more frustrating than being told that you are capable of performing a job, but you are not going to be given the job simply because the rules preclude you. It affects your dignity and self-worth because it relates to how you are viewed in the organization, an organization you want to be a part of, an organization you are willing to die for. INTERVIEWER:
Do you think the Navy has achieved the goal of total equality now?
WILMOT:
No, I don't think any organization can say it has. Even though the Navy has made tremendous efforts in recruiting, it hasn't reached its potential for minorities and women.
INTERVIEWER:
What do you think are some of the key steps the organization should take to make that happen?
WILMOT:
First, the organization has to have the will to do it. The assets have to be put in recruiting. The organization has to be good at taking a very hard look at itself periodically, which I think the Navy does. The leadership has to look at indicators to figure out if they are spinning their wheels or they've achieved some success.
INTERVIEWER:
You mentioned the will to change as the first step in organizational change. Do you think the Navy has the will to change?
WILMOT:
Yes, I do. There are a lot of competing, important things that need to be done, but someone must adopt the sacred trust to make things happen. They have to be listened to and they have to be heard. They can't be silenced or intimidated.
INTERVIEWER:
Do y o u think that happens a lot? You tried to make things happen. Were there attempts to silence you?
WILMOT:
Yes, it happens a lot, sometimes due to peer pressure. I remember very distinctly one day when I was a student at the Navy War College. I was walking across a parking lot and a Marine officer fell in step with me. He said, "I have a question for you. Why do you have to be the point woman on the issue of w o m e n being in the military? Why do you take on every guest speaker? Why don't you let it ride?" I said, "Okay. I'll make a deal with you. If you'll take on our next speaker about the issue of women, I won't." Of course, he said, "No. It's not m y issue." The point was, who was going to do it?
INTERVIEWER: You took on a role of advocate for women in the Navy. Was that a conscious decision?
WILMOT:
86
It was the job the Navy gave me! In 1974 the Navy said, "Do this job!", so I went at it with the same enthusiasm that I went after every other job. The N a v y said, "Tell us what we need to do to provide equal opportunity for women." Working with a number of men and women, we looked at what had to be done and fought for it.
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
INTERVIEWER:
We've talked some about your work from 1974 to 1976 as branch head of Equal Opportunity for Women. How did you land this position?
WILMOT:
It was an accident. When I was told that I was going to head up a new branch called Equal Opportunity for Women, I asked, "What does the branch do?" They said, "We're not sure!" In my first days at the Bureau of Naval Personnel, I visited everybody we conducted routine business with, because I wanted to meet them before we got into whatever issues we were going to get into. I called on male lieutenant commanders and at first they were really nice, "Oh, how are you? Sit down, Louise. Do you want a cup of coffee? Now where are you working?" When I said, "I'm doing Equal Opportunity for Women," they would take the coffee cup out of my hand and send me out the door! It was awful; it was really my first rejection. I finally made an office call on the admiral who appointed me to this post and said, "You know we're not very popular a r o u n d here. What is it that you want me to do?" He said, "Well, we're not sure, but we know this is important. We have to focus on equal opportunity for women. I would like you to look at the situation and come back and tell me what you should do." The secret to my success was this: I never came back and told the admiral what I should do, but I did come back and tell the admiral what he should do and what the rest of the Navy ought to be doing!
INTERVIEWER:
Many organizations are extremely demanding, especially in today's rightsized global economy, but the Navy is one of the only organizations that clearly says you will do whatever it takes, even give your life if necessary. Did you have to make personal sacrifices?
WILMOT:
Yes, but everybody does. I don't regard anything that I had to do as being different from what the men had to do who were my shipmates and colleagues. There was a lot of time away from family and not a lot of personal time.
INTERVIEWER:
Were you able to have a career in the Navy and a personal life? Did you marry?
WILMOT:
Yes. I met my husband in 1971 when I was stationed in the Navy Senate Liaison Office. I had just been selected for lieutenant commander when we were married. My husband said, "I know how much being in the Navy means to you. I really think you are going to go far, so you stay in the Navy and I will follow." At that time there was no way for him to know how far we could go. My husband is my great partner of 25 years. I could not have done all these things without my husband and his support.
INTERVIEWER:
Do you have children? Was that choice affected by your career?
WILMOT:
No, I don't. That is a personal issue.
INTERVIEWER:
Although you have held positions where your job was to forward equal opportunity for women, you were also the first woman to command a Naval base. How would you describe your leadership style? Do you believe that a controlling style or an interpersonal style is more effective? WIN~_~R 2 0 0 0
87
WILMOT:
Oh, I think it's a combination. When you are the commanding officer, you are the leader and you will do a lot of difficult things. You will find people guilty of offenses and you will punish them. As much as you regret having to do these things, you do them. I think that the people who have been successful are the people who are unafraid to show their human side, unafraid to laugh with others and make themselves available to others. That's who people want to be with and want to work with. I remember when I was an ensign in Pensacola, Florida. There was this "chew them up and spit them out" admiral, but he always said hello to the ensigns and asked us how we were. That's all he had to do. We would tell our shipmates that the admiral spoke to us.
INTERVIEWER: It sounds like he was offering personal recognition. WILMOT:
Yes, he was. I was especially mindful of talking with and shaking hands with sailors and petty officers. I never forgot that they would go home and tell their family, "Hey, the admiral talked to me today." That makes them excited and one of your responsibilities as a leader is to make people excited about their service. There has to be a partnership.
INTERVIEWER: Some people believe that men make better bosses or leaders. Would you agree with that? WILMOT:
No, because I've seen some really poor male leaders, as well as some really good ones. I think that you have to sit down and look at your strengths and weaknesses. I think you also have to look at your organization and w h a t it needs from you at that time. Does it need an organizer? A dreamer? A visionary? An implementer? Beyond what the organization needs, there are personal characteristics that are part of you and your persona and you shouldn't have to hide them. You shouldn't have to be afraid to let them show.
INTERVIEWER: What are the parts of your persona that made you such an effective leader? Were you encouraged to hide them? WILMOT:
I understand what it means to empower people. I understand the importance of respecting what they do and their priorities. I think it's important to be real and to be there for those who need u s - - n o t to be hidden away in mystery. I think that accessibility and vulnerability are great strengths, because people understand that you too can be hurt, cry, be angry, and have a lot of emotions. Also, I understand the importance of teamwork. Every day I get up and I look in the mirror and tell myself I'm on a team. I'm not alone. I have to negotiate with others. Others have to be persuaded. I tell people who report to me that they have to get up and say it every day, "I am on a team." As I look back and try to figure out things that people had seen in me, this is one of the recurring themes: teamwork, teamwork, teamwork. "Louise has a way of making people work together as a team."
INTERVIEWER: Do you think that your emphasis on teamwork and your interpersonal orientation arise because you are a woman leader? 88 ORGANIZATIONAL DYNAMICS
WILMOT:
Your question reminds me of an African-American captain in charge of the Equal O p p o r t u n i t y Division in the e a r l y 1970s. H e came to s p e a k at the W o m e n Officer's Professional Association on the issue of racism. H e said, "I've b e e n asked m a n y times which comes first with me, being a Naval officer or an African-American? I can't split myself d o w n the middle. I a m an African-American. I am a Naval officer. To me they are one and the same." I think you have to preserve y o u r p e r s o n and preserve w h a t e v e r y o u are that is good and w h o l e s o m e and m a k e s y o u interesting and different f r o m e v e r y o n e else. There is no reason in the world to surrender y o u r soul, y o u r person, or your spirit.
INTERVIEWER:
H o w d o y o u avoid surrender?
WILMOT:
You are asking me a very difficult question. I have seen others surrender a n d feel that they were cheated in some w a y b y having to give up what was theirs. I decided that I would never give u p w h o I am. I felt special. There was a recruiting slogan in the N a v y in the 1970s: "Be something special: Be a w o m a n officer in the Navy." I just took those slogans as absolute reality: Be something special.
INTERVIEWER:
What is one of the best things that can be said about y o u as a leader?
WILMOT:
I let m y staff do their jobs. I do not m a n a g e them every minute. From the v e r y beginning we establish trust and confidence. I k n o w that they k n o w a lot m o r e about w h a t they are d o i n g than I do. T h e y k n o w the theory of it; they k n o w h o w to do it. What they want me to do is to be the big coordinator.
INTERVIEWER:
What d o you think was y o u r greatest success in the Navy?
WILMOT:
In 1989 a group of 13 admirals were c o n v e n e d by the Secretary of the N a v y to select n e w admirals a n d I was one of those selected! This is t r e m e n d o u s testim o n y to the Navy and the chances I did have while serving. When I joined the N a v y I had no idea it was possible to achieve this.
INTERVIEWER:
That's a t r e m e n d o u s achievement. Selection boards look at so m a n y records, but choose so few people. What was it about you that m a d e them select y o u ? What stood out?
WILMOT:
I succeeded at m y previous c o m m a n d in a disastrous, yet challenging situation. M y boss made sure everyone u n d e r s t o o d what w e had accomplished in a v e r y difficult environment. Also, I h a d b e e n the first w o m a n serving as an aide a n d executive assistant to the Assistant Secretary of the Navy. I was wellk n o w n during those years and I held m y o w n with the guys.
INTERVIEWER:
O n the opposite side, w h a t was the greatest failure or regret in y o u r career?
WILMOT:
The worst situation was during m y tour as C o m m a n d e r of the Naval Training Center in Orlando. An accusation was m a d e that a c o m p a n y c o m m a n d e r h a d physically assaulted a w o m a n recruit. T h e r e were also accusations that comp a n y c o m m a n d e r s w e r e abusing a n d engaging in consensual sexual liaisons with recruits. WINTER 2 0 0 0
89
A reporter from the Washington Post wrote a sensationalized story about this. It was devastating because I was personally attacked in editorials. When we were featured on the six o'clock news, "horror of the day," it was personally hurtful. I stood out in front and took responsibility. I had six commands and none of my commanding officers' names ever appeared in the press. I took the heat. INTERVIEWER: Talk about taking it on your shoulders though, that's a big one. One of the ironies of the situation that strikes me is that many of the charges were completely contrary to everything you had worked hard for during the m a n y years preceding this job. WILMOT:
It was devastating, it was absolutely devastating. Sometimes I couldn't even breathe. I thought my life was over. How could anyone think that I thought it was okay that some first-class petty officer was verbally harassing female recruits? The day after the whole story broke, I held a press conference. Holding that press conference was the smartest thing I could have done. The stories from those that covered it were very fair. I told them, "We do have issues. There are cases. They've been investigated. Punishment has been meted out. Whether or not you agree with the punishment, that's another story and that's another issue." Given what was going on, the Department of Defense Inspector General's Office decided to administer a survey to measure sexual harassment at our commands. It found that w o m e n in the boot camps felt safe and had tremendous confidence in their commanders. They felt that the command was very much against sexual harassment and that the commanding officers and the admiral would "do you in" if you were caught harassing a recruit. Only in your dreams do you get results like this! In the end, the women spoke for themselves, but there was never a frontpage story anywhere that told the end of the story.
INTERVIEWER: You have been the highest-ranking woman in the Navy as well as the highestranking woman in your current organization, Catholic Relief Services. Do you see any differences between being a leader in a military versus a civilian organization? WILMOT:
Yes. You can get things done in the Navy very quickly. However, in a civilian organization, you have to do a lot more talking, convincing, and selling. Everything that you want to do involves a partnership. You have to be patient in getting these things done.
INTERVIEWER:
Do you think there was a difference in the acceptance of you as a w o m a n leader, not just a leader, but a woman leader, in the Navy versus in Catholic Relief Services?
WILMOT:
The Executive Director of Catholic Relief Services specifically said, "We have never had an executive who was a woman; we want a woman in this job who has had leadership experience." People who worked with me, if they had apprehensions, were smart enough to keep them to themselves and to judge me by my actions. There were other men and women who said, "Oh, it is so great. We are so glad that there is a woman executive."
90
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
INTERVIEWER:
What did you think were some of the most important things that you did or that you were a catalyst for to wage war on racism, sexual harassment, and discrimination?
WILMOT:
When I was conducting an investigation of an officer who was anonymously accused of misconduct, an African-American lieutenant commander spoke on his behalf. After he gave me the factual information he concluded by saying, "All my life in the Navy I have had to fight racism, but I knew who my enemies were because they would stand up and say something to try and 'kill' me. What we are now dealing with are anonymous SOBs who are trying to take down this good man." I thought about this quite often. I felt that it was very important, especially when I was in the position of admiral, to take every opportunity to, first, give hope to those who were suffering from sexism and racism and second, to let those anonymous racist and sexist SOBs out there know that I considered them cancers on the soul.
INTERVIEWER:
H o w do you think racist and sexist behavior impacts the Navy from a strategic perspective?
WILMOT:
It's so destructive--anything that destroys your soul, destroys your being, and weakens your ability to be a cohesive unit. You can't permit this cancer, which is invisible, to attack your crew and to demoralize them--to make them think that this organization isn't what they thought it was.
INTERVIEWER:
When you look back in retrospect, h o w successful do you feel you were?
WILMOT:
I feel that those people whom I worked with and knew, whom I came into contact with would give me a salute and say, "Well done, shipmate."
INTERVIEWER:
If there was one piece of advice you were going to give a junior woman who was entering the Navy today, what would that advice be?
WILMOT:
I like the advice that the World War I sailor gave at the Women's Memorial Dedication ceremony. She said, "Go for it." Similarly, I say, enjoy what you are doing. Think about what you want to do. Be aware that you have a legacy to leave and think about what that legacy is going to be. Realize that your time in the Navy ends; someone relieves you, takes your place, and the Navy moves on. I want a legacy where people say, "She came. She saw. She conquered. She left something good for us."
INTERVIEWER:
What do you think the best things are that you have left?
WILMOT:
That I left the Navy better than I found it. That you can change things. Someone who came in 1964 who was not allowed to attend the Naval Academy or command, could command, succeed, be recognized by her superiors and the people she worked with, and be rewarded for that success.
WINTER2000
91
A Conversation with RearAdmiral Louise Wilmot: Taking the Lead and Leading the Way INTERVIEWED BY ELLEN FAGENSON-ELAND A N D PAMELAJ. KIDDER
ear Admiral Wilmot was the most senior oman in the United States Navy when she retired in 1994. She was the first woman to command a naval base. She served in the Navy for 30 years and held three positions while serving as an admiral, including Commander of the United States Naval Base in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Vice Chief of Naval Education and Training, Pensacola, Florida; and Commander of the Naval Training Center in Orlando, Florida. She also served as the Executive Assistant for Manpower and Reserve Affairs in Washington, D.C. Before retiring, Admiral Wilmot was the highest-decorated woman in the U.S. Navy. She received the Navy Distinguished Supe80
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
rior Service Medal, the Legion of Merit (with three gold stars), the Meritorious Service Medal, and the Joint Service Commendations Medal. She is listed in Wh0's Who in America. Working Woman magazine (NovemberDecember, 1996) named her as one of the w o m e n who "changed the world" during 1976 to 1996. She is currently the Deputy Executive Director of Catholic Relief Services in Baltimore, Maryland. Interviews conducted with the admiral over a period of several months are excerpted for this article. Ellen A. Fagenson-Eland is an associate professor at George Mason University's School of Management and Pamela J. Kidder is a private consultant.
INTERVIEWER:
You have certainly had a v e r y interesting and challenging career. You spent a p p r o x i m a t e l y 30 years in the U n i t e d States N a v y , an o r g a n i z a t i o n often described as one of the last male bastions in the world. The press tells us that this organization is rife with issues related to integration of w o m e n into the workforce--discrimination and harassment. Yet, y o u w e r e a great success b y a n y o n e ' s standards. H o w did you achieve such a great level of success?
WILMOT:
With a good dose of naivet6 and t r e m e n d o u s enthusiasm! I d i d n ' t join the N a v y with the concept that I was joining an all-male organization. Certainly, m y initial experiences in the N a v y didn't support that fact. I began m y career in W o m e n Officer's Candidate School, which primarily consisted of w o m e n training women. At m y first d u t y station, the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida, there was a w o m a n lieutenant commander, w h o was a p p o i n t e d to be the senior representative for women. She was wonderful and charismatic and took us u n d e r her wing. There also w e r e some v e r y senior enlisted w o m e n from w h o m I learned a lot. In those very early two years of m y career in the Navy, it n e v e r s e e m e d to me that I was isolated.
INTERVIEWER:
It's v e r y interesting h o w our early experiences in organizations can impact our entire careers. In describing y o u r early years, y o u talked about people w h o i m p a c t e d y o u r life. We read about the i m p o r t a n c e of mentors. W h e n y o u e n t e r e d the Navy, there w e r e no w o m e n admirals. You obviously c o u l d n ' t look at a female role model and say, "That is w h e r e I shall stand some day." Was there an individual (or several), a w o m a n or a man, w h o m y o u w o u l d describe as a mentor?
WILMOT:
Oh, yes. I had m a n y mentors, male and female, in m y career. I couldn't n a m e just one because there were one or two at every place I served.
INTERVIEWER:
H o w and w h y did you choose y o u r mentors?
WILMOT:
T h e y were all intriguing personalities and very different from one another. One of my mentors was one rank ahead of me. She was a v e r y strong person with a clear idea of what w o m e n o u g h t to be doing. I t h o u g h t we w o r k e d well together and she was a great ally. She was also s o m e b o d y w h o could help me think m y w a y t h r o u g h m y emotions to the issues, particularly w h e n I was working on equal o p p o r t u n i t y issues at the Bureau of N a v y Personnel. W h e n y o u see blatant discrimination, there are a lot of emotions. She was instrumental in helping me sift through the facts, put an a r g u m e n t together, and act. Another m e n t o r was an admiral and she was a fantastic role model. It was amazing just to see h o w she acted, how she m o v e d t h r o u g h the organization, h o w she accepted her role as admiral. I was also in awe of her great sense of balance and her e n o r m o u s dignity with h u m o r .
INTERVIEWER:
T h e r e has also b e e n significant discussion about the value of n e t w o r k i n g ; some e v e n say that it is especially important for "nontraditional" organizational members, such as a w o m a n in a p r e d o m i n a n t l y male organization, to network. Have you n e t w o r k e d in y o u r career? To w h a t extent have you netw o r k e d with w o m e n versus men? WINTER 2 0 0 0
81
WILMOT:
I believe that it is important to network with people, both men and women. People can give you valuable information and they can teach you how to get things done. When I was a junior officer there were so few women who could help you and give you advice that it was especially important to network with both men and women. Now there are more women who have been through it all and can give you their perspective.
INTERVIEWER:
You were very active in the Women's Professional Association. Many say that this organization provides a great opportunity for women to network. Could you talk a little about that organization and the value that you see in it?
WILMOT:
When I was transferred to Washington, D.C., the w o m a n who was the unofficial coordinator of the Women's Professional Association asked me to come to her house for dinner. We ate, drank some wine, and then she just looked at me and said, "I'm leaving, so here it is," and handed me a big cardboard box containing information about the Association. I decided that I would take the job she was handing me, but I needed to get organized. When I was putting this organization together, there were many people who said, "You can pull it together, Louise. But you should work in the background, to protect yourself, your reputation, and your career. You don't want to be out in front on this issue." I said, "Yes I do." I thought, this is ridiculous. I'm not going to have a front out there. I want to be out in front. A lot of people were concerned about the group. A lot of bosses said, "This is subversive. You can't do it."
INTERVIEWER: Why did they adopt this view? What was the threat of this organization? WILMOT:
82
They wanted to know: Why do all you women have to get together? Why do you have to have an organization? What's the deal? What's going on here? Well, male officers had their organizations. They had the Naval Academy Alumni Association, which had no women members at that time, because women weren't allowed into the Naval Academy. (The first class to graduate with women was in 1980.) Many of the military communities had their own organizations but since women weren't allowed to serve in some of them, we decided to have our own organization and to be inclusive, inviting all military and civilians in the Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard. ! knew that we had to have a powerful sponsor. I had a meeting with the Chief of Navy Personnel. I told him what we were doing and asked if he would be our sponsor. He said, "Of course I will. It's an important thing to do." He agreed to be our first speaker. We made him an honorary member. His support helped to inspire our members. We had a newsletter. The first story discussed the Chief of Navy Personnel's views about our group and why the Navy should support us. We gave copies to our members so they could discreetly leave them on their bosses' chairs! After that other prominent people came to speak to us: the Chief of Naval Operations, a three-star Marine general, the Assistant Secretary of the Navy, and others. We recorded their comments and highlighted what they said about us. That legitimized us. People often ask me why I headed the organization. I remember going into a meeting and entering a huge reception area filled with women officers.
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
There were two ensigns in front of me who said, "Would you look at all those women in uniform?" They had never seen so m a n y in one place! I became president of the Association for what those two w o m e n ensigns represented-the need for w o m e n officers of all ranks to meet and network. There was no forum for them to come together to discuss issues. Nobody wanted to hear about pregnancy issues. Nobody wanted to hear about problems with child care. Many male co-workers had the attitude of, "Tough it out, sweetie. We are the real Navy and those are not real problems." I thought there had to be a way to share information about jobs. I wondered, how can we help each other? We started having seminars. We were very successful in bringing in important speakers. They provided information and muscle. Washington understands muscle, and the muscle was the positive comments made by very senior people expressing approval for our organization. We quoted them when bosses didn't want to let women attend or discouraged them from coming. INTERVIEWER:
It sounds like some of the women encountered resistance if not outright discrimination. Did you ever encounter discrimination in your years in the Navy?
WILMOT:
Oh yes. Many, many years ago when I was stationed at a NATO command I came smack into discrimination against women. (These events occurred during 1966.)
INTERVIEWER:
What happened?
WILMOT:
There were certain jobs that all newly assigned lieutenants in the Navy or Army would do. Since I was a woman I was precluded from doing some of those jobs. They had to look around and find a different job for me. They made a job up, which was okay.
INTERVIEWER:
Did they just say flat out ,"You can't do that because you are a woman" or was it more subtle?
WILMOT:
No, no. It was flat out. The attitude was, "What are we going to do with her?" I managed to make it into something really good and important, but it was a struggle. I never felt that I had the support of my bosses at NATO, never.
INTERVIEWER:
Did you have any female bosses there?
WILMOT:
No, they were all men. I remember a situation in which there was an exercise requiring everybody to go to a remote site. The site had sleeping quarters. My boss said, "Well, you have to go take your turn at the remote site but you can't sleep out there. You will have to get on the bus and travel." I did. I was traveling from the city out to the remote site which was an hour plus ride, performing the d u t y I was supposed to do, then getting back on the bus and coming back. I was subsisting on three or four hours of sleep. Nobody else was being asked to do this. Nobody. I went to see a very senior woman Marine lieutenant colonel, and she said, "This is unfair. This is unjust." She suggested that I write a letter and pass it through the chain of command. That is what I did. They sat on it; they refused to forward it.
WINTER2000 83
INTERVIEWER:
I think it's hard for many of us to imagine such blatant discrimination. It doesn't sound as if there was even an attempt to make this unfair treatment "look" like something else.
WILMOT:
That's right, but remember this was 1966. It was considered okay because everybody did it! The military viewed w o m e n a certain way. They didn't view women as integral to the military, but as a group w h o would be there for a few years and then go away. That's the Navy I entered. It was a very nontraditional thing for a woman to join the Navy, but once she joined the expectations and career paths were limited.
INTERVIEWER:
You surprised them didn't you? Your jobs could be called almost anything but traditional. Could you talk a little about your w o r k in the Navy Senate Liaison Office?
WILMOT:
I had filled out my "work preference" request stating, in 36 different ways, that I wanted to go to San Diego, but I received a call saying that I was being transferred to Washington D.C., to the Navy Senate Liaison Office. Being a good Navy officer I said, "Thank you. I'll see you in Washington." I had three years in the Senate, from 1971 to 1974. It was an absolutely wonderful experience for me to be in that office.
INTERVIEWER:
That is quite a "plum" position for anyone, but I imagine especially for a woman, right? There weren't many female members of Congress either in the early 1970s.
WILMOT:
No, there weren't. Neither the Army, Air Force, nor the Marines had ever had women in their Senate Liaison Offices, but the N a v y had decided that they wanted women to serve in the U.S. Senate and U. S. House of Representatives.
INTERVIEWER:
What was your work like in that environment?
WILMOT :
Oh, it was unrelenting, but it was really interesting. We saw the Chief of Naval Operations, and the Secretary of the Navy all the time. It was during this time that the Secretary of the Navy had organized a study group on women. The Congress and the Department of Defense wanted standard procedures and legislation for dealing with male and female officers. A group, consisting mainly of Navy and Marine lawyers, was asked to identify laws that treated women differently from men.
INTERVIEWER:
Was this committee headed by a woman or a man?
WILMOT:
It was headed by a male captain, but there was female representation. The group proposed changes to almost 300 statutes, rewrote the laws, and in 1973 gave these changes to the Secretary of the Navy, w h o agreed to recommend changes to all the laws except two: the law precluding w o m e n from attending the Naval Academy and the 1948 legislation preventing women from serving aboard ships and in combat aircraft.
INTERVIEWER: What was your view?
WILMOT: 84
I said, "Change it! I want to be equal." One of the officers working on the com-
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
mittee said, "Well, Louise, I want to make you equal but you don't want to be as equal as they are proposing." I said, "Why are you making this decision for me?" These two laws were the cornerstones of life in the Navy. They had to change. INTERVIEWER:
That was very progressive thinking. Many members of Congress today would still not agree with those views.
WILMOT:
Exactly, but the Congress and a lot of women's lobbying interest groups got the Naval Academy entrance requirements changed. The rationale of the Navy had been, "Why should we pay for women's education when we can get them for free!" I talked with a woman captain who looked me right in the eye and said, "This is a matter of resources. We should pay for men, but not for women." I said, "Why would you devalue us?" She replied, "Well, you are not allowed to do the things that men can do." I said, "Maybe we should change that too!" The N a v y leadership was adamantly opposed to allowing women into the Naval Academy, but the decision was taken out of their hands. Congress changed the law.
INTERVIEWER:
My guess is that a lot of people from the Navy would describe your views as downright radical. Would you describe yourself as a feminist or activist?
WILMOT:
I think that I am someone who just saw that things weren't right and that they ought to be corrected. I think that if you see something that's wrong and you see that it's not just you personally who is suffering, but hundreds and thousands of others, then you should take action to try to correct these things.
INTERVIEWER:
When y o u say wrong, are you speaking from a moral or business perspective?
WILMOT:
I think it was wrong to deny women the opportunity for full service. I looked at this issue for women in the Navy and I saw no problem that could not be overcome. Women could serve on ships and fly planes and do all the things that the N a v y does. I think that women w h o want to defend their nation should be given the training and the opportunity to do it.
INTERVIEWER:
Do you think there are any jobs in the Navy from which women should be excluded?
WILMOT:
No.
INTERVIEWER:
What grade would you give the Navy if you had to give it a grade on how well it has done so far in achieving this goal?
WILMOT:
If I didn't give it an A+ on my own personal behalf, the decision makers would say, "Aren't you an ungrateful child!" I think I would give the Navy a good grade because we asked a very traditional organization to move into the future. W h e n I was much junior in rank, my point of view was different. Change wasn't h a p p e n i n g fast enough. I didn't believe that the Navy's arguments WINTER 2000
85
were good arguments. I think the Navy recognized that women could do the job, b u t it just wasn't going to change the rules. There is nothing more frustrating than being told that you are capable of performing a job, but you are not going to be given the job simply because the rules preclude you. It affects your dignity and self-worth because it relates to how you are viewed in the organization, an organization you want to be a part of, an organization you are willing to die for. INTERVIEWER:
Do you think the Navy has achieved the goal of total equality now?
WILMOT:
No, I don't think any organization can say it has. Even though the Navy has made tremendous efforts in recruiting, it hasn't reached its potential for minorities and women.
INTERVIEWER:
What do you think are some of the key steps the organization should take to make that happen?
WILMOT:
First, the organization has to have the will to do it. The assets have to be put in recruiting. The organization has to be good at taking a very hard look at itself periodically, which I think the Navy does. The leadership has to look at indicators to figure out if they are spinning their wheels or they've achieved some success.
INTERVIEWER:
You mentioned the will to change as the first step in organizational change. Do you think the Navy has the will to change?
WILMOT:
Yes, I do. There are a lot of competing, important things that need to be done, but someone must adopt the sacred trust to make things happen. They have to be listened to and they have to be heard. They can't be silenced or intimidated.
INTERVIEWER:
Do y o u think that happens a lot? You tried to make things happen. Were there attempts to silence you?
WILMOT:
Yes, it happens a lot, sometimes due to peer pressure. I remember very distinctly one day when I was a student at the Navy War College. I was walking across a parking lot and a Marine officer fell in step with me. He said, "I have a question for you. Why do you have to be the point woman on the issue of w o m e n being in the military? Why do you take on every guest speaker? Why don't you let it ride?" I said, "Okay. I'll make a deal with you. If you'll take on our next speaker about the issue of women, I won't." Of course, he said, "No. It's not m y issue." The point was, who was going to do it?
INTERVIEWER: You took on a role of advocate for women in the Navy. Was that a conscious decision?
WILMOT:
86
It was the job the Navy gave me! In 1974 the Navy said, "Do this job!", so I went at it with the same enthusiasm that I went after every other job. The N a v y said, "Tell us what we need to do to provide equal opportunity for women." Working with a number of men and women, we looked at what had to be done and fought for it.
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
INTERVIEWER:
We've talked some about your work from 1974 to 1976 as branch head of Equal Opportunity for Women. How did you land this position?
WILMOT:
It was an accident. When I was told that I was going to head up a new branch called Equal Opportunity for Women, I asked, "What does the branch do?" They said, "We're not sure!" In my first days at the Bureau of Naval Personnel, I visited everybody we conducted routine business with, because I wanted to meet them before we got into whatever issues we were going to get into. I called on male lieutenant commanders and at first they were really nice, "Oh, how are you? Sit down, Louise. Do you want a cup of coffee? Now where are you working?" When I said, "I'm doing Equal Opportunity for Women," they would take the coffee cup out of my hand and send me out the door! It was awful; it was really my first rejection. I finally made an office call on the admiral who appointed me to this post and said, "You know we're not very popular a r o u n d here. What is it that you want me to do?" He said, "Well, we're not sure, but we know this is important. We have to focus on equal opportunity for women. I would like you to look at the situation and come back and tell me what you should do." The secret to my success was this: I never came back and told the admiral what I should do, but I did come back and tell the admiral what he should do and what the rest of the Navy ought to be doing!
INTERVIEWER:
Many organizations are extremely demanding, especially in today's rightsized global economy, but the Navy is one of the only organizations that clearly says you will do whatever it takes, even give your life if necessary. Did you have to make personal sacrifices?
WILMOT:
Yes, but everybody does. I don't regard anything that I had to do as being different from what the men had to do who were my shipmates and colleagues. There was a lot of time away from family and not a lot of personal time.
INTERVIEWER:
Were you able to have a career in the Navy and a personal life? Did you marry?
WILMOT:
Yes. I met my husband in 1971 when I was stationed in the Navy Senate Liaison Office. I had just been selected for lieutenant commander when we were married. My husband said, "I know how much being in the Navy means to you. I really think you are going to go far, so you stay in the Navy and I will follow." At that time there was no way for him to know how far we could go. My husband is my great partner of 25 years. I could not have done all these things without my husband and his support.
INTERVIEWER:
Do you have children? Was that choice affected by your career?
WILMOT:
No, I don't. That is a personal issue.
INTERVIEWER:
Although you have held positions where your job was to forward equal opportunity for women, you were also the first woman to command a Naval base. How would you describe your leadership style? Do you believe that a controlling style or an interpersonal style is more effective? WIN~_~R 2 0 0 0
87
WILMOT:
Oh, I think it's a combination. When you are the commanding officer, you are the leader and you will do a lot of difficult things. You will find people guilty of offenses and you will punish them. As much as you regret having to do these things, you do them. I think that the people who have been successful are the people who are unafraid to show their human side, unafraid to laugh with others and make themselves available to others. That's who people want to be with and want to work with. I remember when I was an ensign in Pensacola, Florida. There was this "chew them up and spit them out" admiral, but he always said hello to the ensigns and asked us how we were. That's all he had to do. We would tell our shipmates that the admiral spoke to us.
INTERVIEWER: It sounds like he was offering personal recognition. WILMOT:
Yes, he was. I was especially mindful of talking with and shaking hands with sailors and petty officers. I never forgot that they would go home and tell their family, "Hey, the admiral talked to me today." That makes them excited and one of your responsibilities as a leader is to make people excited about their service. There has to be a partnership.
INTERVIEWER: Some people believe that men make better bosses or leaders. Would you agree with that? WILMOT:
No, because I've seen some really poor male leaders, as well as some really good ones. I think that you have to sit down and look at your strengths and weaknesses. I think you also have to look at your organization and w h a t it needs from you at that time. Does it need an organizer? A dreamer? A visionary? An implementer? Beyond what the organization needs, there are personal characteristics that are part of you and your persona and you shouldn't have to hide them. You shouldn't have to be afraid to let them show.
INTERVIEWER: What are the parts of your persona that made you such an effective leader? Were you encouraged to hide them? WILMOT:
I understand what it means to empower people. I understand the importance of respecting what they do and their priorities. I think it's important to be real and to be there for those who need u s - - n o t to be hidden away in mystery. I think that accessibility and vulnerability are great strengths, because people understand that you too can be hurt, cry, be angry, and have a lot of emotions. Also, I understand the importance of teamwork. Every day I get up and I look in the mirror and tell myself I'm on a team. I'm not alone. I have to negotiate with others. Others have to be persuaded. I tell people who report to me that they have to get up and say it every day, "I am on a team." As I look back and try to figure out things that people had seen in me, this is one of the recurring themes: teamwork, teamwork, teamwork. "Louise has a way of making people work together as a team."
INTERVIEWER: Do you think that your emphasis on teamwork and your interpersonal orientation arise because you are a woman leader? 88 ORGANIZATIONAL DYNAMICS
WILMOT:
Your question reminds me of an African-American captain in charge of the Equal O p p o r t u n i t y Division in the e a r l y 1970s. H e came to s p e a k at the W o m e n Officer's Professional Association on the issue of racism. H e said, "I've b e e n asked m a n y times which comes first with me, being a Naval officer or an African-American? I can't split myself d o w n the middle. I a m an African-American. I am a Naval officer. To me they are one and the same." I think you have to preserve y o u r p e r s o n and preserve w h a t e v e r y o u are that is good and w h o l e s o m e and m a k e s y o u interesting and different f r o m e v e r y o n e else. There is no reason in the world to surrender y o u r soul, y o u r person, or your spirit.
INTERVIEWER:
H o w d o y o u avoid surrender?
WILMOT:
You are asking me a very difficult question. I have seen others surrender a n d feel that they were cheated in some w a y b y having to give up what was theirs. I decided that I would never give u p w h o I am. I felt special. There was a recruiting slogan in the N a v y in the 1970s: "Be something special: Be a w o m a n officer in the Navy." I just took those slogans as absolute reality: Be something special.
INTERVIEWER:
What is one of the best things that can be said about y o u as a leader?
WILMOT:
I let m y staff do their jobs. I do not m a n a g e them every minute. From the v e r y beginning we establish trust and confidence. I k n o w that they k n o w a lot m o r e about w h a t they are d o i n g than I do. T h e y k n o w the theory of it; they k n o w h o w to do it. What they want me to do is to be the big coordinator.
INTERVIEWER:
What d o you think was y o u r greatest success in the Navy?
WILMOT:
In 1989 a group of 13 admirals were c o n v e n e d by the Secretary of the N a v y to select n e w admirals a n d I was one of those selected! This is t r e m e n d o u s testim o n y to the Navy and the chances I did have while serving. When I joined the N a v y I had no idea it was possible to achieve this.
INTERVIEWER:
That's a t r e m e n d o u s achievement. Selection boards look at so m a n y records, but choose so few people. What was it about you that m a d e them select y o u ? What stood out?
WILMOT:
I succeeded at m y previous c o m m a n d in a disastrous, yet challenging situation. M y boss made sure everyone u n d e r s t o o d what w e had accomplished in a v e r y difficult environment. Also, I h a d b e e n the first w o m a n serving as an aide a n d executive assistant to the Assistant Secretary of the Navy. I was wellk n o w n during those years and I held m y o w n with the guys.
INTERVIEWER:
O n the opposite side, w h a t was the greatest failure or regret in y o u r career?
WILMOT:
The worst situation was during m y tour as C o m m a n d e r of the Naval Training Center in Orlando. An accusation was m a d e that a c o m p a n y c o m m a n d e r h a d physically assaulted a w o m a n recruit. T h e r e were also accusations that comp a n y c o m m a n d e r s w e r e abusing a n d engaging in consensual sexual liaisons with recruits. WINTER 2 0 0 0
89
A reporter from the Washington Post wrote a sensationalized story about this. It was devastating because I was personally attacked in editorials. When we were featured on the six o'clock news, "horror of the day," it was personally hurtful. I stood out in front and took responsibility. I had six commands and none of my commanding officers' names ever appeared in the press. I took the heat. INTERVIEWER: Talk about taking it on your shoulders though, that's a big one. One of the ironies of the situation that strikes me is that many of the charges were completely contrary to everything you had worked hard for during the m a n y years preceding this job. WILMOT:
It was devastating, it was absolutely devastating. Sometimes I couldn't even breathe. I thought my life was over. How could anyone think that I thought it was okay that some first-class petty officer was verbally harassing female recruits? The day after the whole story broke, I held a press conference. Holding that press conference was the smartest thing I could have done. The stories from those that covered it were very fair. I told them, "We do have issues. There are cases. They've been investigated. Punishment has been meted out. Whether or not you agree with the punishment, that's another story and that's another issue." Given what was going on, the Department of Defense Inspector General's Office decided to administer a survey to measure sexual harassment at our commands. It found that w o m e n in the boot camps felt safe and had tremendous confidence in their commanders. They felt that the command was very much against sexual harassment and that the commanding officers and the admiral would "do you in" if you were caught harassing a recruit. Only in your dreams do you get results like this! In the end, the women spoke for themselves, but there was never a frontpage story anywhere that told the end of the story.
INTERVIEWER: You have been the highest-ranking woman in the Navy as well as the highestranking woman in your current organization, Catholic Relief Services. Do you see any differences between being a leader in a military versus a civilian organization? WILMOT:
Yes. You can get things done in the Navy very quickly. However, in a civilian organization, you have to do a lot more talking, convincing, and selling. Everything that you want to do involves a partnership. You have to be patient in getting these things done.
INTERVIEWER:
Do you think there was a difference in the acceptance of you as a w o m a n leader, not just a leader, but a woman leader, in the Navy versus in Catholic Relief Services?
WILMOT:
The Executive Director of Catholic Relief Services specifically said, "We have never had an executive who was a woman; we want a woman in this job who has had leadership experience." People who worked with me, if they had apprehensions, were smart enough to keep them to themselves and to judge me by my actions. There were other men and women who said, "Oh, it is so great. We are so glad that there is a woman executive."
90
O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L DYNAMICS
INTERVIEWER:
What did you think were some of the most important things that you did or that you were a catalyst for to wage war on racism, sexual harassment, and discrimination?
WILMOT:
When I was conducting an investigation of an officer who was anonymously accused of misconduct, an African-American lieutenant commander spoke on his behalf. After he gave me the factual information he concluded by saying, "All my life in the Navy I have had to fight racism, but I knew who my enemies were because they would stand up and say something to try and 'kill' me. What we are now dealing with are anonymous SOBs who are trying to take down this good man." I thought about this quite often. I felt that it was very important, especially when I was in the position of admiral, to take every opportunity to, first, give hope to those who were suffering from sexism and racism and second, to let those anonymous racist and sexist SOBs out there know that I considered them cancers on the soul.
INTERVIEWER:
H o w do you think racist and sexist behavior impacts the Navy from a strategic perspective?
WILMOT:
It's so destructive--anything that destroys your soul, destroys your being, and weakens your ability to be a cohesive unit. You can't permit this cancer, which is invisible, to attack your crew and to demoralize them--to make them think that this organization isn't what they thought it was.
INTERVIEWER:
When you look back in retrospect, h o w successful do you feel you were?
WILMOT:
I feel that those people whom I worked with and knew, whom I came into contact with would give me a salute and say, "Well done, shipmate."
INTERVIEWER:
If there was one piece of advice you were going to give a junior woman who was entering the Navy today, what would that advice be?
WILMOT:
I like the advice that the World War I sailor gave at the Women's Memorial Dedication ceremony. She said, "Go for it." Similarly, I say, enjoy what you are doing. Think about what you want to do. Be aware that you have a legacy to leave and think about what that legacy is going to be. Realize that your time in the Navy ends; someone relieves you, takes your place, and the Navy moves on. I want a legacy where people say, "She came. She saw. She conquered. She left something good for us."
INTERVIEWER:
What do you think the best things are that you have left?
WILMOT:
That I left the Navy better than I found it. That you can change things. Someone who came in 1964 who was not allowed to attend the Naval Academy or command, could command, succeed, be recognized by her superiors and the people she worked with, and be rewarded for that success.
WINTER2000
91