- Email: [email protected]
The expansion of APCA into AWMA
PE ,RSONALIA The E x p a n s i o n of A P C A into A W M A President Gale Hoffnagle President, Air and Waste Management Association (Formally The Air Pollution Control Association) and Vice President and Technical Director TRC Environmental Consultants 800 Connecticut Blvd., East Hartford, CT 06108, USA
Interviewed by Professor R.D. Bornsteln
Q: C o u l d y o u r e v i e w y o u r a c a d e m i c b a c k g r o u n d ? A: I have a Bachelors of Science in Meteorology (1967) and a Masters of Science in Meteorology (1968), both from New York University. I also have a Masters in Business Administration from Golden Gate University (1972) in Sacramento, California. Q: W h a t was y o u r v e r y first p o s i t i o n i n air p o l l u t i o n m e t e o r o l o g y ? A: The New York University/New York City Urban Air Pollution Dynamics Program, in which I participated in the summers of 1964 to 1968. Q: W h a t were y o u r a c t i v i t i e s o n t h a t p r o j e c t ? A: They included pilot balloon releases, emission inventory evaluations, and wind tunnel evaluation of plumes. That work was carried out under Ben Davidson, Hershel Slater, Ed Cohen, and you. Q: C o u l d y o u r e v i e w y o u r p r o f e s s i o n a l b a c k g r o u n d s i n c e N Y U ? A: I have been in consulting for 21 years. The first four years were in Sacramento with the United States Air Force, which I consider a consulting assignment because we were advising some 50 odd state side Air Force Bases on how to meet the Clear Air Act requirements. I then spent four years at Itera Environmental Consulting in Houston, Texas, working principally on numerical modeling for complex terrain issues. I joined Environmental Research and Technology from 1976 to 1982, working primarily on pollutant modeling issues relating to complex terrain. Finally, I joined T R C in 1982, became a Vice President shortly thereafter, and have been at T R C since then. Almost all of that effort has been working directly with clients on their air quality problems. Q: Do c o m p u t e r s p l a y a role i n t h e w o r k t h a t y o u h a v e d o n e ? A: Computers play a consistent role in all of the things that I have done, because all of the modeling issues that we have become involved with for the prediction of concentration at downwind locations are evaluated by computers. Q: W h a t t y p e s o f c o m p u t e r s o f t w a r e a n d h a r d w a r e are u s e d i n t h e s e a c t i v i t i e s ? A: Originally, most of my work was run on large main frames, because the numerical modeling, especially at Intern, required a large storage capability. It is fascinating to me that the same model I ran back in the early '70's is now run on a PC with the same speed as on that main frame. Q: D i d y o u h a v e to w r i t e y o u r o w n p r o g r a m s , or w e r e y o u a b l e to use a v a i l a b l e p a c k a g e d p r o g r a m s ? A: The history of software as a modeling tool has certainly gone from using programs that one wrote oneself to packaged programs. This change occurred as EPA has gone from whatever model you could demonstrate your conclusions with to having to use a specific model designated for the particular problem. EPA wanted to have consistent modeling across the country. Thus, over the last ten years, people very seldom ask what kind of model would you use or how would you make this model perform better, you now use the EPA model and see what results you get.
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Q: W h a t is t h e b a s i c c o m p u t e r l a n g u a g e i n w h i c h t h e s e m o d e l s a r e w r i t t e n ? A: They are all written in Fortran. Q: W h e n d i d y o u first b e c o m e i n v o l v e d w i t h t h e A i r P o l l u t i o n C o n t r o l A s s o c i a t i o n ? A: I joined the Association in 1968 and attended some national meetings, becoming involved with several committees at the local level or section level of the organization in 1972. I have continuously worked in the organization since then. Q: W h a t were s o m e of t h e p o s i t i o n s t h a t y o u h e l d o n y o u r way to b e i n g e l e c t e d P r e s i d e n t ? A: I was Section Chairman of the Southwest Section in 1975-76. Then I was Chairman of the Section Council, which represented all of the sections across the U.S. and Canada. Then in 1979, I was elected to the national board of directors and served there for three years. In 1985, I was re-elected to the Board of Directors, and in 1987 I was elected President to a one year term for 1988-89. Q: H o w has t h e A s s o c i a t i o n c h a n g e d d u r i n g t h e y e a r s t h a t y o u h a v e b e e n a s s o c i a t e d w i t h i t ? A: I believe that the Association, when I first joined, was very ingrown, people talking to each other within the Association. I think that the major change over the period of time that I've been involved is an ever-expanding growth of activities and efforts to talk not just internally among ourselves, but to the entire world. Q" W h a t a r e s o m e of t h e m a j o r a c c o m p l i s h m e n t s of A P C A ? A: APCA is basically a forum where people from all sides of the issue, whether they are regulators, from industry, consultants, academics, the general public, or members of environmental groups, can all get together to talk about the issues. That means that we're pretty limited in terms of being able to comment on national legislation. One thing that we can always agree on is EPA training grants and EPA research; to make sure that EPA research is on the subjects of interest. The education part of the Association, I think, has been a long, strong lasting effort that has kept air pollution training alive during periods when there was not much focus on education or not much in EPA's budget for education. We have done much, but I am sure there is more that the Association can do. Q: W h a t was t h e m o t i v a t i o n of c h a n g i n g t h e A i r P o l l u t i o n C o n t r o l A s s o c i a t i o n i n t o t h e A i r a n d W a s t e Management Association? A: Most of the motivation to adopt waste management in addition to air pollution control was based on the fact that a large percentage of our membership was also participating in RCRA and CERCLA activities. Q: C o u l d y o u d e f i n e t h o s e t e r m s ? A: They are the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act and the Superfund program, respectively. A signifcant segment of our membership was becoming multi-media; their jobs were no longer just in air pollution control. The thrust has been a gradual change (over four or five years) to include waste management, but not to include water quality because there are already very strong groups in that area. To broaden our perspective is certainly the most important long term change in the environmental movement - viewing problems as multi-media situations. Unfortunately, Congress is probably the last one to do that, so it's a new ground-up environmental movement. Q: A r e c o m p u t e r s a n d c o m p u t e r s o f t w a r e t o o l s also u s e d i n w a s t e m a n a g e m e n t ? A: Not to the same extent as in air quality. I don't see, certainly, in ground water, an equivalent sized modeling community and an equivalent modeling interest. It seems to me, that at Superfund sites, instead of modeling, they just go out and take more samples (because they have lots of money). There is, however, a strong hydrological modeling community, with the same sort of computer needs (hardware and software) as in air pollution modeling. I think, however, that the most important changes are in database management. I've certainly seen a flurry of activity in environmental software dealing with regulations applied to specific chemicals. There are many programs, for instance, that involve community emergency planning schemes. There are also many programs that help to identify toxic compounds in the air, water, or soil; what the concentrations are; and what are their legal concentration limits. Now with inexpensive PC's, very few consulting jobs are decided on the issue of how much computer time is needed. Such jobs are decided on who is going to execute and analyze the computer output. That is good, because our hands were previously tied by who had the cheapest computer. Q: W h a t c h a n g e s d o y o u see h a p p e n i n g i n t h e e n v i r o n m e n t a l field w i t h i n t h e n e x t few y e a r s ? I n p a r t i c u l a r , w h a t c h a n g e s will effect y o u n g p e o p l e e n t e r i n g t h e field? A: The most important development that I see is in international cooperation on environmental issues. I can cite the recent international agreement on limiting NOx emissions and the present discussions about a possible international agreement on volatile organic carbon compounds. These types of international protocols are basically superseding what, we in the environmental business felt, was a parochial national view. Now we are seeing a global movement to limit global emissions. Governments are willing, without much consultation with their own industry, or without much discussion at congressional levels, to vote to enact international agreements to limit emissions. Individual industries and their consultants have less and less to say about how it's done - less and less to say about whether it's wise, for instance, to limit NOx emission.
E n v i r o n m e n t a l Software, 1989, Vol. 4, No. 2
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Q: B u t t h e s e l i m i t a t i o n s will h a v e t o b e i m p l e m e n t e d w i t h i n e a c h c o u n t r y , a n d t h e n d i s c u s s i o n s will h a v e to b e c a r r i e d o u t o n h o w to s p r e a d t h e r e d u c t i o n s a c r o s s t h e v a r i o u s s e g m e n t s w i t h i n e a c h i n d i v i d u a l c o u n t r y . A : T h a t is correct; there will be work for regulators, consultants, industry, and academia to decide on how to meet these international agreements. In the past, the United States set its own air quality goals, with everyone participating in the setting of those goals. Now the goals are set on an international level, and what's left is their implementation. Q" W h a t a d v i c e d o y o u h a v e for y o u n g p e o p l e c o n s i d e r i n g a c a r e e r in t h e e n v i r o n m e n t a l a r e a , w i t h r e s p e c t to a r e a s t h a t m i g h t b e h o t in f o u r o r five y e a r s a n d w i t h r e s p e c t t o t h e s k i l l s t h a t t h e y s h o u l d p l a n to obtain? A" I think that over the next four or five years, the most important issues are going to involve toxic chemicals; those issues are going to require a substantial understanding of chemistry. I think that the other issue in this is waste minimization the elimination or reduction of the toxics in the first place. Addressing waste minimization and toxic removal is going to require chemical process engineering and chemistry in a way not needed before. The other thing that I would say is that the consulting business lacks enough well trained people, period. T h a t may not have been true in 1982 and 1983, when the environmental consulting business suffered its only real slump, but I see a very much expanding business over the next ten years. Superfund programs take a lot of talent and a lot of people. At the same time, air quality, water quality, and management issues will also require a great deal more effort. The main thrust that I see is towards chemistry and chemical engineering. Q: A n d t o w a r d s c o m p u t e r s k i l l s ? A : I think that computer skills will also be needed, primarily because the issues are becoming more complex. This is especially true with the issues becoming more multi-media, and especially when the number of pollutants that we must deal with is now maybe 500 different toxic chemicals, as opposed to the five or six air criteria pollutants. I think that the environmental business is going to be strong over a long period of time, and there are ever expanding needs for better software and better applications of that software to environmental problems. Especially now, there is a wide range of opportunity for individuals that know about the environment to sit down and solve problems with a computer program, and to have a market to sell it to. That was not true three or four years ago, but now there is a market for the software. So lets everybody dig in and write the good stuff!
ANNOUNCEMENT 2nd International Software
Exhibition
for Environmental
of
Engineering
11 October, 1989 Villa Olmo, Como, Italy T h e e x h i b i t i o n will p r o v i d e a f o r u m for e x c h a n g i n g e x p e r i e n c e s a m o n g software developers a n d i n f o r m i n g software users ( p a r t i c u l a r l y p u b l i c agencies r e s p o n s i b l e for e n v i r o n m e n t a l p l a n n i n g a n d m a n a g e m e n t ) a b o u t the l a t e s t a c h i e v e m e n t s in t h e field. T h e p a r t i c i p a t i o n is o p e n to r e s e a r c h e r s a n d i n t e r e s t e d agencies who have developed software specifically o r i e n t e d to t h e s o l u t i o n of e n v i r o n m e n t a l p r o b l e m s a n d can be utilized by o t h e r p a r t i e s w i t h o u t a deep knowledge of c o m p u t e r science. Several p e r s o n a l c o m p u t e r s will be available for direct d e m o n s t r a t i o n of p a r t i c i p a n t s p r o g r a m s , while software r u n n i n g on m i n i s a n d m a i n f r a m e s can be p r e s e n t e d t h r o u g h posters. T h e c a t a l o g u e of all p r e s e n t e d software will be p u b l i s h e d in b o o k form.
For additional informalion contact: Professor G. Guariso, Department of Electronics Politecnico di Milano, Via Ponzio 3/t/5 20133 Milano, Italy Tel: (2) 23993560, Telex: 333467, F A X : (2) 23993587
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E n v i r o n m e n t a l Software, 1989, Vol. 4, No. 2
Interviewed by Professor R.D. Bornsteln
Q: C o u l d y o u r e v i e w y o u r a c a d e m i c b a c k g r o u n d ? A: I have a Bachelors of Science in Meteorology (1967) and a Masters of Science in Meteorology (1968), both from New York University. I also have a Masters in Business Administration from Golden Gate University (1972) in Sacramento, California. Q: W h a t was y o u r v e r y first p o s i t i o n i n air p o l l u t i o n m e t e o r o l o g y ? A: The New York University/New York City Urban Air Pollution Dynamics Program, in which I participated in the summers of 1964 to 1968. Q: W h a t were y o u r a c t i v i t i e s o n t h a t p r o j e c t ? A: They included pilot balloon releases, emission inventory evaluations, and wind tunnel evaluation of plumes. That work was carried out under Ben Davidson, Hershel Slater, Ed Cohen, and you. Q: C o u l d y o u r e v i e w y o u r p r o f e s s i o n a l b a c k g r o u n d s i n c e N Y U ? A: I have been in consulting for 21 years. The first four years were in Sacramento with the United States Air Force, which I consider a consulting assignment because we were advising some 50 odd state side Air Force Bases on how to meet the Clear Air Act requirements. I then spent four years at Itera Environmental Consulting in Houston, Texas, working principally on numerical modeling for complex terrain issues. I joined Environmental Research and Technology from 1976 to 1982, working primarily on pollutant modeling issues relating to complex terrain. Finally, I joined T R C in 1982, became a Vice President shortly thereafter, and have been at T R C since then. Almost all of that effort has been working directly with clients on their air quality problems. Q: Do c o m p u t e r s p l a y a role i n t h e w o r k t h a t y o u h a v e d o n e ? A: Computers play a consistent role in all of the things that I have done, because all of the modeling issues that we have become involved with for the prediction of concentration at downwind locations are evaluated by computers. Q: W h a t t y p e s o f c o m p u t e r s o f t w a r e a n d h a r d w a r e are u s e d i n t h e s e a c t i v i t i e s ? A: Originally, most of my work was run on large main frames, because the numerical modeling, especially at Intern, required a large storage capability. It is fascinating to me that the same model I ran back in the early '70's is now run on a PC with the same speed as on that main frame. Q: D i d y o u h a v e to w r i t e y o u r o w n p r o g r a m s , or w e r e y o u a b l e to use a v a i l a b l e p a c k a g e d p r o g r a m s ? A: The history of software as a modeling tool has certainly gone from using programs that one wrote oneself to packaged programs. This change occurred as EPA has gone from whatever model you could demonstrate your conclusions with to having to use a specific model designated for the particular problem. EPA wanted to have consistent modeling across the country. Thus, over the last ten years, people very seldom ask what kind of model would you use or how would you make this model perform better, you now use the EPA model and see what results you get.
102
E n v i r o n m e n t a l Software, 1989, Vol. 4, No. 2
Q: W h a t is t h e b a s i c c o m p u t e r l a n g u a g e i n w h i c h t h e s e m o d e l s a r e w r i t t e n ? A: They are all written in Fortran. Q: W h e n d i d y o u first b e c o m e i n v o l v e d w i t h t h e A i r P o l l u t i o n C o n t r o l A s s o c i a t i o n ? A: I joined the Association in 1968 and attended some national meetings, becoming involved with several committees at the local level or section level of the organization in 1972. I have continuously worked in the organization since then. Q: W h a t were s o m e of t h e p o s i t i o n s t h a t y o u h e l d o n y o u r way to b e i n g e l e c t e d P r e s i d e n t ? A: I was Section Chairman of the Southwest Section in 1975-76. Then I was Chairman of the Section Council, which represented all of the sections across the U.S. and Canada. Then in 1979, I was elected to the national board of directors and served there for three years. In 1985, I was re-elected to the Board of Directors, and in 1987 I was elected President to a one year term for 1988-89. Q: H o w has t h e A s s o c i a t i o n c h a n g e d d u r i n g t h e y e a r s t h a t y o u h a v e b e e n a s s o c i a t e d w i t h i t ? A: I believe that the Association, when I first joined, was very ingrown, people talking to each other within the Association. I think that the major change over the period of time that I've been involved is an ever-expanding growth of activities and efforts to talk not just internally among ourselves, but to the entire world. Q" W h a t a r e s o m e of t h e m a j o r a c c o m p l i s h m e n t s of A P C A ? A: APCA is basically a forum where people from all sides of the issue, whether they are regulators, from industry, consultants, academics, the general public, or members of environmental groups, can all get together to talk about the issues. That means that we're pretty limited in terms of being able to comment on national legislation. One thing that we can always agree on is EPA training grants and EPA research; to make sure that EPA research is on the subjects of interest. The education part of the Association, I think, has been a long, strong lasting effort that has kept air pollution training alive during periods when there was not much focus on education or not much in EPA's budget for education. We have done much, but I am sure there is more that the Association can do. Q: W h a t was t h e m o t i v a t i o n of c h a n g i n g t h e A i r P o l l u t i o n C o n t r o l A s s o c i a t i o n i n t o t h e A i r a n d W a s t e Management Association? A: Most of the motivation to adopt waste management in addition to air pollution control was based on the fact that a large percentage of our membership was also participating in RCRA and CERCLA activities. Q: C o u l d y o u d e f i n e t h o s e t e r m s ? A: They are the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act and the Superfund program, respectively. A signifcant segment of our membership was becoming multi-media; their jobs were no longer just in air pollution control. The thrust has been a gradual change (over four or five years) to include waste management, but not to include water quality because there are already very strong groups in that area. To broaden our perspective is certainly the most important long term change in the environmental movement - viewing problems as multi-media situations. Unfortunately, Congress is probably the last one to do that, so it's a new ground-up environmental movement. Q: A r e c o m p u t e r s a n d c o m p u t e r s o f t w a r e t o o l s also u s e d i n w a s t e m a n a g e m e n t ? A: Not to the same extent as in air quality. I don't see, certainly, in ground water, an equivalent sized modeling community and an equivalent modeling interest. It seems to me, that at Superfund sites, instead of modeling, they just go out and take more samples (because they have lots of money). There is, however, a strong hydrological modeling community, with the same sort of computer needs (hardware and software) as in air pollution modeling. I think, however, that the most important changes are in database management. I've certainly seen a flurry of activity in environmental software dealing with regulations applied to specific chemicals. There are many programs, for instance, that involve community emergency planning schemes. There are also many programs that help to identify toxic compounds in the air, water, or soil; what the concentrations are; and what are their legal concentration limits. Now with inexpensive PC's, very few consulting jobs are decided on the issue of how much computer time is needed. Such jobs are decided on who is going to execute and analyze the computer output. That is good, because our hands were previously tied by who had the cheapest computer. Q: W h a t c h a n g e s d o y o u see h a p p e n i n g i n t h e e n v i r o n m e n t a l field w i t h i n t h e n e x t few y e a r s ? I n p a r t i c u l a r , w h a t c h a n g e s will effect y o u n g p e o p l e e n t e r i n g t h e field? A: The most important development that I see is in international cooperation on environmental issues. I can cite the recent international agreement on limiting NOx emissions and the present discussions about a possible international agreement on volatile organic carbon compounds. These types of international protocols are basically superseding what, we in the environmental business felt, was a parochial national view. Now we are seeing a global movement to limit global emissions. Governments are willing, without much consultation with their own industry, or without much discussion at congressional levels, to vote to enact international agreements to limit emissions. Individual industries and their consultants have less and less to say about how it's done - less and less to say about whether it's wise, for instance, to limit NOx emission.
E n v i r o n m e n t a l Software, 1989, Vol. 4, No. 2
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Q: B u t t h e s e l i m i t a t i o n s will h a v e t o b e i m p l e m e n t e d w i t h i n e a c h c o u n t r y , a n d t h e n d i s c u s s i o n s will h a v e to b e c a r r i e d o u t o n h o w to s p r e a d t h e r e d u c t i o n s a c r o s s t h e v a r i o u s s e g m e n t s w i t h i n e a c h i n d i v i d u a l c o u n t r y . A : T h a t is correct; there will be work for regulators, consultants, industry, and academia to decide on how to meet these international agreements. In the past, the United States set its own air quality goals, with everyone participating in the setting of those goals. Now the goals are set on an international level, and what's left is their implementation. Q" W h a t a d v i c e d o y o u h a v e for y o u n g p e o p l e c o n s i d e r i n g a c a r e e r in t h e e n v i r o n m e n t a l a r e a , w i t h r e s p e c t to a r e a s t h a t m i g h t b e h o t in f o u r o r five y e a r s a n d w i t h r e s p e c t t o t h e s k i l l s t h a t t h e y s h o u l d p l a n to obtain? A" I think that over the next four or five years, the most important issues are going to involve toxic chemicals; those issues are going to require a substantial understanding of chemistry. I think that the other issue in this is waste minimization the elimination or reduction of the toxics in the first place. Addressing waste minimization and toxic removal is going to require chemical process engineering and chemistry in a way not needed before. The other thing that I would say is that the consulting business lacks enough well trained people, period. T h a t may not have been true in 1982 and 1983, when the environmental consulting business suffered its only real slump, but I see a very much expanding business over the next ten years. Superfund programs take a lot of talent and a lot of people. At the same time, air quality, water quality, and management issues will also require a great deal more effort. The main thrust that I see is towards chemistry and chemical engineering. Q: A n d t o w a r d s c o m p u t e r s k i l l s ? A : I think that computer skills will also be needed, primarily because the issues are becoming more complex. This is especially true with the issues becoming more multi-media, and especially when the number of pollutants that we must deal with is now maybe 500 different toxic chemicals, as opposed to the five or six air criteria pollutants. I think that the environmental business is going to be strong over a long period of time, and there are ever expanding needs for better software and better applications of that software to environmental problems. Especially now, there is a wide range of opportunity for individuals that know about the environment to sit down and solve problems with a computer program, and to have a market to sell it to. That was not true three or four years ago, but now there is a market for the software. So lets everybody dig in and write the good stuff!
ANNOUNCEMENT 2nd International Software
Exhibition
for Environmental
of
Engineering
11 October, 1989 Villa Olmo, Como, Italy T h e e x h i b i t i o n will p r o v i d e a f o r u m for e x c h a n g i n g e x p e r i e n c e s a m o n g software developers a n d i n f o r m i n g software users ( p a r t i c u l a r l y p u b l i c agencies r e s p o n s i b l e for e n v i r o n m e n t a l p l a n n i n g a n d m a n a g e m e n t ) a b o u t the l a t e s t a c h i e v e m e n t s in t h e field. T h e p a r t i c i p a t i o n is o p e n to r e s e a r c h e r s a n d i n t e r e s t e d agencies who have developed software specifically o r i e n t e d to t h e s o l u t i o n of e n v i r o n m e n t a l p r o b l e m s a n d can be utilized by o t h e r p a r t i e s w i t h o u t a deep knowledge of c o m p u t e r science. Several p e r s o n a l c o m p u t e r s will be available for direct d e m o n s t r a t i o n of p a r t i c i p a n t s p r o g r a m s , while software r u n n i n g on m i n i s a n d m a i n f r a m e s can be p r e s e n t e d t h r o u g h posters. T h e c a t a l o g u e of all p r e s e n t e d software will be p u b l i s h e d in b o o k form.
For additional informalion contact: Professor G. Guariso, Department of Electronics Politecnico di Milano, Via Ponzio 3/t/5 20133 Milano, Italy Tel: (2) 23993560, Telex: 333467, F A X : (2) 23993587
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