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Discussions
DISCUSSIONS
PAPER 5A BESCHICKUNG EINER KONTINUIERLICHEN STOFFBEREITUNG by G . Bruggeman, Zanders Feinpapiere, Bergisch Gladbach, German Federal Republic
PAPER 52 COMPUTER CONTROL OF SULPHITE PULP BLEACHING DEPARTMENT by R . I. Sosnovski , L. L . Gurjevich and N . P. Serebrjakov, National Committee of Automatic Control, Moscow, USSR
Question Regarding the problem shown . The equation shows the problem to be one of delay due to the pu Iping, filling, slushing and dumping time . Get rid of the problem by continuous pulping , using the same pulper and the problem dissappears . I feel this is not a computer problem at all , but one that can read i ly be solved by conventional instrumentation and relays .
Question by P. O . Lidby , manager systems engineer ing AB Iggesunds Bruk, Iggesund, Sweden 1) What is the type and the capacity of the computer used? 2) What is meant by "the absorber of the tower" . Can you really rely on O. R. P. ?
Answer
3) Where is the system used and for how long?
Fur das vorgesehene Produktionsprogramm mit zahlreichen, sehr unterschiedlichen Sorten, erschien uns ein kontinuierlich arbeitender Pulper aus technischen Grunden nicht geeignet. Es gab deshalb nur die Alternativen :
4) How does the local control system of tower levels work when there is no computer ? Answers
l. Zusatzliche Ableerbutten und Pulper aufzustellen, um den Ablauf zu vereinfachen . Das hatte erhebliche I nvestitionen erfordert .
1) The control system appl ies a computer of a special design with a capacity of 1500 words . 2) The chlorination tower is compr ised of two parts . The first part is a small capacity up flow tower with an ORP sensing device on the upper part of the tower. We can fully rely on the ORP value since the measuring point had been chosen very carefully at a rather definite transport lag and a good blending of the stock. The correction of the ORP set point with regard to the chlorine demand and variation in transport lag ensures stabilisation of the cooking degree of the chlorinated pulp. 3) The system is used at one of the pulp and paper mills in USSR for one year.
2. Von den in der Einleitung geschilderten Gegebenheiten auszugehen und damit einen Verfahrensablauf in Kauf zu nehmen, der den Einsatz eines Rech ners sinnvoll erscheinen lasst. Wir haben uns aus Kostengrunden fUr die zweite Moglichkeit entschieden.
Paper 5.5: ON THE DYNAMIC PROPERTIES OF THE BEATING MACHINE by E. Arjas and S. Salovaara, Helsinki University of Technology , Otaniemi, Finland Question by V . Tinnis, Ekono, Helsinki, Finland
4) Local tower level control systems may function with a computer as well as without it. In the latter case the level set point is displayed the technical staff.
You have presented quite a nice analytical model of the beating process. My question is related to the practical part of it. Have you planned any experiments to evaluate your a' s and b's in your matrices and if you have planned such things are you going to make any mill scale test?
Question by dr. ir. J . van Reusel, systems engineering ENI, Aartselaar, Belgium Cou Id you specify how the operator changes the ORP set point when the cooking degree or the pulp flow changed (Problem related to man-m achine combination)
Answer The role and effect of the residence time distribution in the beating process have been extensively studied in Ref. 1, wh ich is based on a cons iderable amou nt of experimental work (mainly using radioactive tracers). The remaining parts of the model presented here are to a large extent conceptual at this stage, and no experimental verification has been planned yet.
Answer Under normal operating conditions the required ORP value as well as the chlorin flow set point are establ ished by a computer. I n the off position of the computer the chlorin flow set point controlled with the application of a local control system by the ORP value, while the operator changes the 0 RP set point on hand the relations obtained previously .
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PAPER 5A BESCHICKUNG EINER KONTINUIERLICHEN STOFFBEREITUNG by G . Bruggeman, Zanders Feinpapiere, Bergisch Gladbach, German Federal Republic
PAPER 52 COMPUTER CONTROL OF SULPHITE PULP BLEACHING DEPARTMENT by R . I. Sosnovski , L. L . Gurjevich and N . P. Serebrjakov, National Committee of Automatic Control, Moscow, USSR
Question Regarding the problem shown . The equation shows the problem to be one of delay due to the pu Iping, filling, slushing and dumping time . Get rid of the problem by continuous pulping , using the same pulper and the problem dissappears . I feel this is not a computer problem at all , but one that can read i ly be solved by conventional instrumentation and relays .
Question by P. O . Lidby , manager systems engineer ing AB Iggesunds Bruk, Iggesund, Sweden 1) What is the type and the capacity of the computer used? 2) What is meant by "the absorber of the tower" . Can you really rely on O. R. P. ?
Answer
3) Where is the system used and for how long?
Fur das vorgesehene Produktionsprogramm mit zahlreichen, sehr unterschiedlichen Sorten, erschien uns ein kontinuierlich arbeitender Pulper aus technischen Grunden nicht geeignet. Es gab deshalb nur die Alternativen :
4) How does the local control system of tower levels work when there is no computer ? Answers
l. Zusatzliche Ableerbutten und Pulper aufzustellen, um den Ablauf zu vereinfachen . Das hatte erhebliche I nvestitionen erfordert .
1) The control system appl ies a computer of a special design with a capacity of 1500 words . 2) The chlorination tower is compr ised of two parts . The first part is a small capacity up flow tower with an ORP sensing device on the upper part of the tower. We can fully rely on the ORP value since the measuring point had been chosen very carefully at a rather definite transport lag and a good blending of the stock. The correction of the ORP set point with regard to the chlorine demand and variation in transport lag ensures stabilisation of the cooking degree of the chlorinated pulp. 3) The system is used at one of the pulp and paper mills in USSR for one year.
2. Von den in der Einleitung geschilderten Gegebenheiten auszugehen und damit einen Verfahrensablauf in Kauf zu nehmen, der den Einsatz eines Rech ners sinnvoll erscheinen lasst. Wir haben uns aus Kostengrunden fUr die zweite Moglichkeit entschieden.
Paper 5.5: ON THE DYNAMIC PROPERTIES OF THE BEATING MACHINE by E. Arjas and S. Salovaara, Helsinki University of Technology , Otaniemi, Finland Question by V . Tinnis, Ekono, Helsinki, Finland
4) Local tower level control systems may function with a computer as well as without it. In the latter case the level set point is displayed the technical staff.
You have presented quite a nice analytical model of the beating process. My question is related to the practical part of it. Have you planned any experiments to evaluate your a' s and b's in your matrices and if you have planned such things are you going to make any mill scale test?
Question by dr. ir. J . van Reusel, systems engineering ENI, Aartselaar, Belgium Cou Id you specify how the operator changes the ORP set point when the cooking degree or the pulp flow changed (Problem related to man-m achine combination)
Answer The role and effect of the residence time distribution in the beating process have been extensively studied in Ref. 1, wh ich is based on a cons iderable amou nt of experimental work (mainly using radioactive tracers). The remaining parts of the model presented here are to a large extent conceptual at this stage, and no experimental verification has been planned yet.
Answer Under normal operating conditions the required ORP value as well as the chlorin flow set point are establ ished by a computer. I n the off position of the computer the chlorin flow set point controlled with the application of a local control system by the ORP value, while the operator changes the 0 RP set point on hand the relations obtained previously .
218